Print

[Shangalar]

To me, a given number of free, full rerolls in combination with being able to save some profiles and the possibility of obtaining more rerolls by doing something would be a perfect solution.

Agreed.

[paragon]

> You need to do things to obtain gear and develop your character. So why should something so essential as being able to reroll that character come at no cost?
You still need to "obtain gear" with any character and "develop" it if you have any class at any point of the time. Won't be the same all the time, but who cares? What do you want more, more players which play because they like to or more grinders which play because they can get advantage?

I'm pretty sure I can implement ability to store builds client-side, it doesn't require to limit slots for characters at all. Heh, I bet if there'll be that restriction, it still will be client-side thus easy hackable, just start storing versions of client-side scripts right now and learn a little of disassembling routing for later. Although I'm not sure it's sent in assembled way at all.

The only arguments I hear from you guys is "It's not like in RPG" and "I personally don't want to reroll".
I would love to see how and where RPG says that ability to change your character should be limited.
Also I would love to point, that your taste is not a good argument at all.

[Koniko]

Free reroll and easy loot is not cause of emtpy server. Lack of end-game objectives for autists is. Making rerolls paid price higher than 1000 money is going full-retard and enjoying idea of making milion alts.

[naossano]

The only arguments I hear from you guys is "It's not like in RPG" and "I personally don't want to reroll".

You mean beside the current abuse of players who constantly reroll to gain and edge on the battlefield ?

I would love to see how and where RPG says that ability to change your character should be limited.

You know that RPG means Role-playing game ? You play one role on the battlefield while other characters play other roles. You aren't playing a role if you change character every battle.
Beside, for the billion time already, it was never said that reroll itself would be removed entirely.

[RazorRamon]

Get a load of this kid, he thinks rerolling to counter the enemy is abuse.

Is this your first videogame? Do you consider building anti air defenses in a strategy game abuse if your opponent only has aircraft? Is it abuse to pick a different character in a fighting game on a bad matchup?

[paragon]

Your character at each moment of the time can have only one role. That's exactly PRG, true.
Now you are trying to extend this idea by some restrictions which is only in your idea of what you want to call RPG. It is fallacy and therefore falsy.

So you call ability of 5 m1c players to reroll into close combat to fight 5 melee players camping the building "abuse", thus it gives away you lack of experience in organizing a team to keep active gameplay in situation of complete disadvantage. Yes, you can try to stand outside for 3 hours waiting for them to come out, but I don't think that it's the gameplay anyone wants.

I don't care how much times you're going to repeat that reroll won't be removed. The only acceptable solution to keep game free from obligatory grinding, keep players online and give them ability to fairly compete in pvp is to keep reroll cost extremely low and its mechanics widely accessible. Any other solution is unacceptable and will degrade AoP gameplay to TLAmk2/Fo2 alike

Now let's consider 2 different solutions of "slightly" limiting rerolls and not limiting the at all.

In the first situation, players will have access to some amount of builds which will be most probably highly different from each over, which doesn't suite to even your falsy definition of RPG. So what's point of limiting them to that small amount of builds? I don't see one except your taste.

There's no real arguments have been stated in this thread to limit rerolls except economics and personal players' taste. And in my opinion it has no comparison to all lost benefits.

[naossano]

So you call ability of 5 m1c players to reroll into close combat to fight 5 melee players camping the building "abuse", thus it gives away you lack of experience in organizing a team to keep active gameplay in situation of complete disadvantage. Yes, you can try to stand outside for 3 hours waiting for them to come out, but I don't think that it's the gameplay anyone wants.

That 5 vs 5 scenario is the current phase of AOP. I doubt anyone, dev or community expect or intend to keep the playerbase that low. Also, with limited reroll, you wouldn't end up with a whole team composed by only a single kind of build. They would be more varied from the get go. No need to change those builds every five minutes. Also, there are ways to inflict them damage from windows or blows doors. At last, there is the balance thing. If one kind of build is overpowered so that it prevent the opponement to take any action, it needs to be balanced by the dev. For them to aknowledge the issue, they need a sufficient number of players able to notice it and point it to them. This won't happen if they all switch to melee too.

[paragon]

Your idea of what devs want is falsy.
They stated many times that they want more small scale around the core instead of big scale in one place.

Anyway, your idea of using 20 m1c against 20 melee camping building is no better. Theoretically it's much less possible, yes, but if one team has overwhelming amount of close range against another team with overwhelming amount of high range low DPS, fight will not happen before exhausting waiting game, which every experienced player know and would like to avoid. Same if teams have no sneakers and in many other cases. You as someone who got used to get into building and wait for 40 minutes while my team carefully check every building surely should remember it, I'm only surprised why are you not trying to avoid it in future.

Builds are specialized and it's fine. It's good that someone builds are better than others and worse than others in the same time. It's exactly what you tried to call RPG.
Melee are good in buildings and it should be that way. It's also called RP fucking G.

Now I didn't see how limiting rerolls benefit anyone except your taste from your message.

Sorry, mate, your lack of understanding of game and social mechanics in combination of zealous talkability about it makes me question my adequacy because I still answering your messages.
Please, go back to calling v-tec a swarm instead. I'm done with conversations with you again.

[twat]

It is like saying that people must not pay for an education or medicine because we are a 21st century country; we must not pay for rerolls because we are a better game: so the government is going to subsidize rerolls. It is fascism and leads to societal decay.

I am with you on the argument for spending time in the game instead of staring at the char generator. It does need to be very cheap for low level players, and still reasonable for high level players.

[Niamak]

RPG in video games usually means having character progression through pve or pvp. Free unlimited reroll goes against character progression since you will only experience character progression once instead making alts. You could argue character progression in some games is a grind and boring but then the game is at fault.

In the end, we might end up with the most complex reroll system... save states, free reroll for certain patches, price based on character lvl and number of reroll done during the day... what else ?

[naossano]

Your idea of what devs want is falsy.
They stated many times that they want more small scale around the core instead of big scale in one place.

That there should be more small scale battle around big ones doesn't mean playerbase should be low. The server isn't up just for the 20 of us that play it every day. If the server was only for us and the dev didn't intend more playerbase and more feature, it wouldn't be still online. You don't make an entire server running just for a few guys.

Also, you are the only leader that refuse to fight if he doesn't think he will win. The three other factions do dare to fight agains't the odds and sometimes win. And even amongs VTEC, when you aren't there, there are a few brave VTEC that dare to fight anyway, despite not having huge advantage. So don't try to apply a logic that work only for you to everyone else. We don't play the game to always have advantage, but for the thrill of the fight.

Now I didn't see how limiting rerolls benefit anyone except your taste from your message.

Sure, it won't benefit you to stop abusing a feature that wasn't intended for that. But it will stop being detrimental for the server and the other players.

[paragon]

It is like saying that people must not pay for an education or medicine because we are a 21st century country; we must not pay for rerolls because we are a better game: so the government is going to subsidize rerolls. It is fascism and leads to societal decay.

I am with you on the argument for spending time in the game instead of staring at the char generator. It does need to be very cheap for low level players, and still reasonable for high level players.

Hue-hue, hello to Americans. Fascist decayed German society currently leads medicine, computer and many other sciences, as well as European economics in whole having wide-spread free higher education. Also I think some parts of medicine, but I some Germans could help me out here. So yes, that's exactly what free rerolls for, better game.

> Free unlimited reroll goes against character progression since you will only experience character progression once instead making alts.
So you INSIST that everyone should make alts. That's an unexpected argument, I don't even have anything to defend against with. Except the whole history of Fonlines showing that multi-charactering is pretty bad for anything trying to be balanced, fair and competitive. It's something like if DOTA will let you to use multiple accounts of yours in any amount in one game. Sure, you could consider this as a another question of taste and legit mechanics, free for everyone to use and requires skill to use it to win. But I think currently it's out of the discussion.

Character progression in AoP is endless by design, so I would say that forcing everyone to create alts and break it goes against character progression much sooner. Now again, show me any RPG guideline that ROLE should not be changed?

> In the end, we might end up with the most complex reroll system... save states, free reroll for certain patches, price based on character lvl and number of reroll done during the day... what else ?

Fully agreed, no need for it. Plain free rerolls and ability to reroll instantly in any pre-arranged builds will be enough.

[Kurwier]

blyad germany gmbh

[antohha]

Ok, i'll write my opinion as a player from mostly the start of the server.
First mistake i see from guys supporting free rerolls is that they pretend that no free rerolls ==no rerolls at all. Taking some fee for rerolls doesn't remove them from ya!
On the orher hand it makes you think before creating build. You don't just pull some shit togather and hope it will work. If you fail in your build-you pay for it.

Secondary, it will leave some "mystery" to builds.  During the year I played on aop Ive seen hella lot of builds from other people. Of course some were more eficcient than others, but most of them were at least decent in the fight. And it was cool!
 Free rerolls bring us to situation where all variatins of builds can be checked, and the best is found -> every1 uses same build.

Thirdly money sink. After  FC was introduced Ive gotten about 100k of it just particapating in battles. And I didnt use most of it, as everything i need for battles, i loot there. Payed rerolls itself wontfix high inflation we have right now but surely it will help.

In my thoughts I imagined reroll system in this style-
1) noobs under X lvl(24?) Always have free rerolls, to try out new builds.
2) normal players have their reroll pool, that increments each day by 1.
3)rerolls could be bought for X price(500).
4) special reroll tokens drop from pve content+ as reward for pvp(could be traded between players).
But after Ive read idea about several "profiles" I think it would be very cool if possible :-)
 

[paragon]

2. is the only one thing I didn't discuss in my posts yet.

Now with free rerolls people are still using different builds for same proposes. Can't deny it, can you?
And it will stay the same for everyone who creates builds for themself.
But if there's no free-rerolls and my friends will join the game, to not make a mistake, they will use my builds instead of creating own (: Because making mistakes is double pain when you can just take something optimised which everyone will try to avoid.

Before rerolls were introduced and still were limited In KotW only 2-3 people were making builds for everyone and one of them was me. On top of that I was making builds for the rest ~5-6 people playing with me in the beginning of the session.
Because if they fail and "progress their character through 2 weeks of pve" to finally be able to play pvp and the build is not effective, fuck this game.

[naossano]

Alting is already toned down by the fact your character keeps levelling almost forever. (how many players reach the maximum since day one ?). Also, considering PVP itself amongs the best way to level up, you are less likely to "grind" characters somewhere else. You level up at your own pace. At last, characters are already pretty versatiles in having combat oriented skills and non-combat oriented skills separated. You don't need a crafter alt as you usually do in other servers. So AOP "encourages" you to have less characters, but doesn't punish you for having multiple chars. Many of us have 2-3 characters and those characters aren't weak even if some have lower level than others. (sometimes even less than lvl24). But the problem of other servers never was alting on itself, but multi-log and fast-relog in which bigger grinding teams had a few other alt on worldmap and just logged them after first character death. This is already countered by the ZC maps being far from WM, the unability to disapear after logging off in the city, and the possibility of your dead character being revived by your teammates. You gain nothing (or barely anything) by having an alt ready when you die. When there is no fast-relog/dual-log involved, alting creates no issues, give no upper hand, and isn't required. You don't have to make an alt for victory and you don't lose either if you do it. It comes to your own choice. (although it is more convenient for switching than having the same character change faction every time the current faction is too numerous. You just log character from faction X to play with faction X)

[paragon]

When you want to limit something, the question you need to ask is what're you trying to benefit by it. Because limiting itself doesn't benefit anything. Limiting is a good tool in some cases but most of the time is just outcome of laziness. Good things don't need to be limited even if some stupid will use them incorrectly, or not everyone will like them, they are still good things for everyone else. Let's go back and see what arguments against free rerolls we had.
1. "RPG" - it's not an argument as have no basement under it, it's just your playstyle you're trying to push everyone in. You can't break me. I was searching but there's nothing saying that in RPG you have to stuck using one character or one role.
2. "Avoiding abuse of rerolling to get advantage " - it's called tactical approach to gameplay, which gives you ability to apply your knowledge of the game mechanics and enemy setup (which requires scouting and analyzing) to win Them and avoid the human doom and punishment for all your sins it, aka skill, leading ability, prediction and planning ability.
3. "Reroll mechanics improvements" - not required to implement. I can make it Alive it but it requires my blood pretty easy and usable without any limitations.
4. "Neglecting a҉̺̠͎͔dvantage of some group of players on other group of players" - same as 2nd, it's up to everyone to use or not to use this mechanics, Basic Multilingual Plane, he c͈͔̖̥͍̘omes but players able to do it obviously should be rewarded, being able to use game knowledge to outplay enemy team as a part of the̿̔̉ RPG!
5. "Avoid situation when players are being pushed into rerolls" - it's really some strange statement Ț̥o͡ ͍̤i̶͇͚̱̱͕n͚v̰͓͖͞o̧̮̫͈ͅḵ̗͉̣̰e̲̠̜ ͉̳͈͕͚̹̕ͅt͏̘̥̬h̫̞̥e̜̱̼̤̬̼ killing. Are those players also being pushed into giving away their money and equipment? I believe please it's not too late stop pushing on us accept your faith you don't understand it's up to every team to decide how they want to play, and anyone being pushed in anything is e̴ͅnd̙̤͍ͅl͇̲̰͞e̵̠̺s͏̠s̛ ̲͖ạ́rg̤͔̹̣͙̻͈̕u̫̩i̜͓̲͘n͍̣̜͘g̘ either considered useless for the team either has chosen wrong team for himself. Anyway, he should reroll or change team CHANGE your mind OPEN your eyes STOP IT STOP IT S̶T̖̝̞̹̬̗͠O̬̖̼̫ͅP̡͎̭̘͙͉ ̥̜̘I̪̬̺̳̺͚T.
6. "Letting players master their builds" - how does playing the same build help exactly? I͎̥̘̗͚̦͠t̰̕ ̥̦̫̟̬m͈̤͕̬͚͎͓a̯̠k̜͈̤̥̦è͉̩͈̘͖s͞ ̗yo͔u̼̗̝̝̭ ͍̱̝i͖͇̙͎̻̥̟t̴͉ͅs̸ ͓s̗̱̟l̗̙̣̬̗a̙͇͡v̰͍̲e͚͕͜ Being flexible and able to fat and easily adjust the build will help much more in my opinion, if you don't agree then j̡͖͇̝ͭ̈́̽͊ͦ̉o̞̿͂̆̚u͎̥͕̱̣̳ŗͯͦ̽̿n͍̟͙̳̊ͦ͒̆̚e̛̩͇̩͉ͩ̓̈́̒͐̉y̸͎̭̪ ̪̖͚̈́͊ͪ͑̃͜ͅi̡̜̩͛̒n͍̯͓̩̫̰͍͒̋ͣ̒̔t̤̰̩̼͑͑̍ͤ̓͡o̡̤͖͓͇̟͒̈́̅͊̌̀ ̛̙̙͍̹̻̫̈̊͌ͫͬ̓̇s̼̺̬͔̖͕̑ͪ͊̇u̺͆g̹̳̬͕͢ą͕͇̲̱̭͓͓̒̾̏r̥̦̳̩̤͕̦͊̃m̶̤͖̠̯̂̃ͣͯ̈́̆ͫaͪͫ̉̈ͣn̶̝ş͎̦̫̙͉̙̃̚ ͍ḽ̫͉̩̜͌̋ͫ̈́ä̰̺͈͖͙̩̂̎ͬ͆̕i͎̯̮̊ͨ̾̇̎ͤ̊r͕͓̘͇̱̆  why do not reroll, but don't limit those who learn by changes.
7. "Interaction" - i͙̲̮̼'̻̘m̮̗̝̩̥̰̹ ͠s̥͎̥͙̟͙p̫̬̭e̵͙̹̙a̝̪̝̪̞̬k͕͓̳̜i҉̙̘̺̟n̖͙̞̱͙g̩̜͓͕̳̪ͅ ̺͕ṭ̺͕̭̥ͅọ͓̰͔ ̕y̖̞̬̪̖͙ó̼͚͇u̶̞ ̢̺̪̺͉̹c͔̦͙͜ḥ̣͖o̳̳̰̬͕s̬̳̩̪͕é͖̖n͞ ̬͉͖̰̞̕o̝n͕̹̱è͉̱̙͓͕͖ FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE and your ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ BLOOD I see how does it connected it's liquidly connected c̤͎̭̯̗̭o̹͖̺n̙n̖̖͙e̴̞c͏̬t̖̝͢e̗d̲̬͕ c̛͙͕̮͉̞͙̺͔͟ơ͙̱̩̹n̳̩̩̲͞lusions should ^be made _by pOny everyo̜͔͈̰̞̬͘͠n̵҉̤̝̬̣͖̣ȩ̶̵͚̻͉̮͚ I CAN NOT RESIST IT S͢͏̙̲͍͓̠̹̼̟̟T̠̞͙͖͓͍̼͝O̡̡̤̬̼̥̝͉͎͚P̵҉̼͚̥͔ ̸̘̠͟͡T̷̨̛̰̱͙H̢̟̱̫I͙͇͡S̵̡̰̻̮ ̩͝ͅP̡͍A̸͔̹̹̜̪͔̮̲I̲͇͕̱̱̟̯͞Ń͎̝̻̯̳̻ ̵̵̛̗̦̤̯͇̝̹Ṕ̠̗͍L̴̞̝̭͝͡Ȩ̗͎̳̣̻͙͈͚̕A҉̦̗S̱͖̞̀̕E̠̖͍̤͙̟ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ





It looks like Mac Users see and generate Zalgo differently than Windows/Linux users...

[ProfessorYanick]

This discussion is getting out of control. It was funny to some extent to watch people refusing to listen to each other, but now it's becoming more and more repetitive. Rerolls should be unlimited in their essence until project declared finished, but should be controllable in the form of granting fixed amount on daily basis with additional granting by the GM decision. Any payment for rerolls will benefit nolifers and thus is a heresy. The only kind of activity in my opinion which could give access to additional rerolls is PVP (some variation of reputation system maybe). Also I consider rerolls overly overestimated in this topic. Rerolls are minor feature in terms of actual PVP usefulness. If you lack coordination, skill and numbers - you will wiped. Has been proven multiple times during the season by v-tec\lawyer swarms with changing amount of core skilled players and coordinators.

[Teela]

When you want to limit something, the question you need to ask is what're you trying to benefit by it. Because limiting itself doesn't benefit anything. Limiting is a good tool in some cases but most of the time is just outcome of laziness. Good things don't need to be limited even if some stupid will use them incorrectly, or not everyone will like them, they are still good things for everyone else. Let's go back and see what arguments against free rerolls we had.
1. "RPG" - it's not an argument as have no basement under it, it's just your playstyle you're trying to push everyone in. You can't break me. I was searching but there's nothing saying that in RPG you have to stuck using one character or one role.
2. "Avoiding abuse of rerolling to get advantage " - it's called tactical approach to gameplay, which gives you ability to apply your knowledge of the game mechanics and enemy setup (which requires scouting and analyzing) to win Them and avoid the human doom and punishment for all your sins it, aka skill, leading ability, prediction and planning ability.
3. "Reroll mechanics improvements" - not required to implement. I can make it Alive it but it requires my blood pretty easy and usable without any limitations.
4. "Neglecting a҉̺̠͎͔dvantage of some group of players on other group of players" - same as 2nd, it's up to everyone to use or not to use this mechanics, Basic Multilingual Plane, he c͈͔̖̥͍̘omes but players able to do it obviously should be rewarded, being able to use game knowledge to outplay enemy team as a part of the̿̔̉ RPG!
5. "Avoid situation when players are being pushed into rerolls" - it's really some strange statement Ț̥o͡ ͍̤i̶͇͚̱̱͕n͚v̰͓͖͞o̧̮̫͈ͅḵ̗͉̣̰e̲̠̜ ͉̳͈͕͚̹̕ͅt͏̘̥̬h̫̞̥e̜̱̼̤̬̼ killing. Are those players also being pushed into giving away their money and equipment? I believe please it's not too late stop pushing on us accept your faith you don't understand it's up to every team to decide how they want to play, and anyone being pushed in anything is e̴ͅnd̙̤͍ͅl͇̲̰͞e̵̠̺s͏̠s̛ ̲͖ạ́rg̤͔̹̣͙̻͈̕u̫̩i̜͓̲͘n͍̣̜͘g̘ either considered useless for the team either has chosen wrong team for himself. Anyway, he should reroll or change team CHANGE your mind OPEN your eyes STOP IT STOP IT S̶T̖̝̞̹̬̗͠O̬̖̼̫ͅP̡͎̭̘͙͉ ̥̜̘I̪̬̺̳̺͚T.
6. "Letting players master their builds" - how does playing the same build help exactly? I͎̥̘̗͚̦͠t̰̕ ̥̦̫̟̬m͈̤͕̬͚͎͓a̯̠k̜͈̤̥̦è͉̩͈̘͖s͞ ̗yo͔u̼̗̝̝̭ ͍̱̝i͖͇̙͎̻̥̟t̴͉ͅs̸ ͓s̗̱̟l̗̙̣̬̗a̙͇͡v̰͍̲e͚͕͜ Being flexible and able to fat and easily adjust the build will help much more in my opinion, if you don't agree then j̡͖͇̝ͭ̈́̽͊ͦ̉o̞̿͂̆̚u͎̥͕̱̣̳ŗͯͦ̽̿n͍̟͙̳̊ͦ͒̆̚e̛̩͇̩͉ͩ̓̈́̒͐̉y̸͎̭̪ ̪̖͚̈́͊ͪ͑̃͜ͅi̡̜̩͛̒n͍̯͓̩̫̰͍͒̋ͣ̒̔t̤̰̩̼͑͑̍ͤ̓͡o̡̤͖͓͇̟͒̈́̅͊̌̀ ̛̙̙͍̹̻̫̈̊͌ͫͬ̓̇s̼̺̬͔̖͕̑ͪ͊̇u̺͆g̹̳̬͕͢ą͕͇̲̱̭͓͓̒̾̏r̥̦̳̩̤͕̦͊̃m̶̤͖̠̯̂̃ͣͯ̈́̆ͫaͪͫ̉̈ͣn̶̝ş͎̦̫̙͉̙̃̚ ͍ḽ̫͉̩̜͌̋ͫ̈́ä̰̺͈͖͙̩̂̎ͬ͆̕i͎̯̮̊ͨ̾̇̎ͤ̊r͕͓̘͇̱̆  why do not reroll, but don't limit those who learn by changes.
7. "Interaction" - i͙̲̮̼'̻̘m̮̗̝̩̥̰̹ ͠s̥͎̥͙̟͙p̫̬̭e̵͙̹̙a̝̪̝̪̞̬k͕͓̳̜i҉̙̘̺̟n̖͙̞̱͙g̩̜͓͕̳̪ͅ ̺͕ṭ̺͕̭̥ͅọ͓̰͔ ̕y̖̞̬̪̖͙ó̼͚͇u̶̞ ̢̺̪̺͉̹c͔̦͙͜ḥ̣͖o̳̳̰̬͕s̬̳̩̪͕é͖̖n͞ ̬͉͖̰̞̕o̝n͕̹̱è͉̱̙͓͕͖ FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE and your ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ BLOOD I see how does it connected it's liquidly connected c̤͎̭̯̗̭o̹͖̺n̙n̖̖͙e̴̞c͏̬t̖̝͢e̗d̲̬͕ c̛͙͕̮͉̞͙̺͔͟ơ͙̱̩̹n̳̩̩̲͞lusions should ^be made _by pOny everyo̜͔͈̰̞̬͘͠n̵҉̤̝̬̣͖̣ȩ̶̵͚̻͉̮͚ I CAN NOT RESIST IT S͢͏̙̲͍͓̠̹̼̟̟T̠̞͙͖͓͍̼͝O̡̡̤̬̼̥̝͉͎͚P̵҉̼͚̥͔ ̸̘̠͟͡T̷̨̛̰̱͙H̢̟̱̫I͙͇͡S̵̡̰̻̮ ̩͝ͅP̡͍A̸͔̹̹̜̪͔̮̲I̲͇͕̱̱̟̯͞Ń͎̝̻̯̳̻ ̵̵̛̗̦̤̯͇̝̹Ṕ̠̗͍L̴̞̝̭͝͡Ȩ̗͎̳̣̻͙͈͚̕A҉̦̗S̱͖̞̀̕E̠̖͍̤͙̟ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ

I think someone has to reset suff.

[Teela]

Alting is already toned down by the fact your character keeps levelling almost forever. (how many players reach the maximum since day one ?). Also, considering PVP itself amongs the best way to level up, you are less likely to "grind" characters somewhere else. You level up at your own pace. At last, characters are already pretty versatiles in having combat oriented skills and non-combat oriented skills separated. You don't need a crafter alt as you usually do in other servers. So AOP "encourages" you to have less characters, but doesn't punish you for having multiple chars. Many of us have 2-3 characters and those characters aren't weak even if some have lower level than others. (sometimes even less than lvl24). But the problem of other servers never was alting on itself, but multi-log and fast-relog in which bigger grinding teams had a few other alt on worldmap and just logged them after first character death. This is already countered by the ZC maps being far from WM, the unability to disapear after logging off in the city, and the possibility of your dead character being revived by your teammates. You gain nothing (or barely anything) by having an alt ready when you die. When there is no fast-relog/dual-log involved, alting creates no issues, give no upper hand, and isn't required. You don't have to make an alt for victory and you don't lose either if you do it. It comes to your own choice. (although it is more convenient for switching than having the same character change faction every time the current faction is too numerous. You just log character from faction X to play with faction X)

I'm going to say it to you one last time. Fucking format your text. This post is an instant migraine attack.

Here:

'Alting is already toned down by the fact your character keeps levelling almost forever. (how many players reach the maximum since day one ?).

Also, considering PVP itself amongs the best way to level up, you are less likely to "grind" characters somewhere else. You level up at your own pace. At last, characters are already pretty versatiles in having combat oriented skills and non-combat oriented skills separated. You don't need a crafter alt as you usually do in other servers.

So AOP "encourages" you to have less characters, but doesn't punish you for having multiple chars. Many of us have 2-3 characters and those characters aren't weak even if some have lower level than others. (sometimes even less than lvl24).

But the problem of other servers never was alting on itself, but multi-log and fast-relog in which bigger grinding teams had a few other alt on worldmap and just logged them after first character death. This is already countered by the ZC maps being far from WM, the unability to disapear after logging off in the city, and the possibility of your dead character being revived by your teammates. You gain nothing (or barely anything) by having an alt ready when you die.

When there is no fast-relog/dual-log involved, alting creates no issues, give no upper hand, and isn't required. You don't have to make an alt for victory and you don't lose either if you do it. It comes to your own choice. (although it is more convenient for switching than having the same character change faction every time the current faction is too numerous. You just log character from faction X to play with faction X)'