FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => Suggestions => Topic started by: faopcurious on September 21, 2014, 11:03:55 PM

Title: Dueling area.
Post by: faopcurious on September 21, 2014, 11:03:55 PM
We need a dueling area so you can fight, and test things with people in your faction without losing rep.
Maybe make it so when you die you cannot be looted, like in the HQ.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mAdman on September 22, 2014, 03:35:35 AM
A back room in each base, where there are no guards, used to "train" for pvp. Yes!

You can pit the 2 "best" teams on your faction against each other to hone their skills, or just train newbies in relative safety.

Good idea.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 04:56:30 AM
And kill PVP with that. Every1 will just farm a single piece of T3 and will happily pvp each other in the base, w/o losing anything.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: wojciech on September 22, 2014, 05:13:35 AM
And kill PVP with that. Every1 will just farm a single piece of T3 and will happily pvp each other in the base, w/o losing anything.

You re wrong. Training pvp in base is old tradition, but You re newbie in fallout online so You will not understand it.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 05:26:52 AM
"You're wrong, therefore I'm right" .
Suuuuureeee...
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Doobee on September 22, 2014, 06:07:39 AM
"You're wrong, therefore I'm right" .
Suuuuureeee...
How else do you want people to get better? In mass PVP where you cant rely on the newb swarm that goes with you? Or maybe random PVP? Sure I will randomly bring MG42 only to try it out and learn to use it effectively. Dude youre as wrong as it gets.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 22, 2014, 06:17:40 AM
And kill PVP with that. Every1 will just farm a single piece of T3 and will happily pvp each other in the base, w/o losing anything.

I doubt it.
Why? There is no point in doing safe PvP over and over again because there is no progression in it, you'd just be wasting ammo and/or equipment condition.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: wojciech on September 22, 2014, 06:21:04 AM
And kill PVP with that. Every1 will just farm a single piece of T3 and will happily pvp each other in the base, w/o losing anything.

I doubt it.
Why? There is no point in doing safe PvP over and over again because there is no progression in it, you'd just be wasting ammo and/or equipment condition.

First example: You want test new weapon- shoot to friend in base.
Second example: You want to test critical shoots with Your char.
Third example: You want teach one of Your new teammate.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 22, 2014, 06:31:35 AM
I think this is a good idea, it may help us learn how to PvP effectively without getting absolutely smashed and looted by someone that knows better.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Butthead on September 22, 2014, 06:52:15 AM
No way, pvp is pvp and there is no need for training or something. This idea sucks go away dumbass
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mAdman on September 22, 2014, 06:53:37 AM
Who said anything about gaining XP or loot?

I figured the base rules would apply, you'd be unlootable in death and respawn in room/base.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Niamak on September 22, 2014, 07:06:56 AM
I heard a training dummy is planned for weapon testing.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: wojciech on September 22, 2014, 07:10:13 AM
No way, pvp is pvp and there is no need for training or something. This idea sucks go away dumbass
Your mom.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 07:27:35 AM
I said nothing about gaining something out of it, repairing condition and getting additional ammo is a piece of cake. Btw, There is nothing stopping you to just shoot each other in your platoon base, usually like 400 overall rep lost. And even if you lose more, like 4k.. Can it even be considered as a loss?
A shooting range with a practice dummy (whose settings you can change, like dr/dt) I'm up for, but arenas.. Whole phoenix is an arena :/.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: xXxDudexXx on September 22, 2014, 07:34:13 AM
hinkly *cough cough*
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: wojciech on September 22, 2014, 07:40:22 AM
I said nothing about gaining something out of it, repairing condition and getting additional ammo is a piece of cake. Btw, There is nothing stopping you to just shoot each other in your platoon base, usually like 400 overall rep lost. And even if you lose more, like 4k.. Can it even be considered as a loss?
A shooting range with a practice dummy (whose settings you can change, like dr/dt) I'm up for, but arenas.. Whole phoenix is an arena :/.

Just dissable losing reputation in base and problem will be solved.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 22, 2014, 07:44:03 AM
I said nothing about gaining something out of it

No, that was my reason for why it wouldn't kill PvP

Quote
There is nothing stopping you to just shoot each other in your platoon base, usually like 400 overall rep lost. And even if you lose more, like 4k.. Can it even be considered as a loss?

The guards prevent a proper duel and yes; 4k rep loss can be costly.

Quote
A shooting range with a practice dummy (whose settings you can change, like dr/dt) I'm up for, but arenas.. Whole phoenix is an arena :/.

A practice dummy does not compare to a real player.
Newer players should have a chance to learn how to properly fight with first hand experience, without losing their gear the entire time and get disencouraged by PvP.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 07:44:20 AM
That will probably be a better choice, and Cirn0 knows about it, AFAIK.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 07:49:25 AM
Armadingo
PvP is not about loot, it's about having fun by surpassing each other.
Guards don't do shit inside platoon base.
That's just wrong IMO. Yes you will get much better in a short time span, but where is the fun in that? :/.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 22, 2014, 08:04:18 AM
PvP is not about loot, it's about having fun by surpassing each other.

Then I don't see why not have a little sparring arena, where we can surpass each other in the faction without significant repercussions.

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Guards don't do shit inside platoon base.

Not everyone has access to a platoon base.

Quote
That's just wrong IMO. Yes you will get much better in a short time span, but where is the fun in that? :/.

The fun lies in not being farmed like potatoes in PvP.
I do agree it makes the learning curve of the game less exciting, but I think it's too rough.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Stem Sunders on September 22, 2014, 08:12:49 AM
No way, pvp is pvp and there is no need for training or something. This idea sucks go away dumbass
Your mom.

Don't retaliate to him, almost every post he has made is like this. It seems every idea but his own "Sucks" and everyone else is a "dumbass". I think hes tryna troll...But hes not very good at that either. I got to the point of just scrolling past his posts when I see his avatar, there is never anything worth reading. Usually just insults followed by poorly executed and uneducated remarks.

BUT back on track, I think its a good idea, it wouldn't kill PvP imo, I'd love a training area/shooting range.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: paragon on September 22, 2014, 08:24:50 AM
Press Profile -- Modify Profile -- Buddies/Ignore List -- Edit Ignore List -- Type Butthurt in "Member" -- Add.

Have a good day!
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Stem Sunders on September 22, 2014, 08:26:28 AM
That wasn't what I was getting at either but, Thanks though my butt was starting to ache a little. :D

Theres only so much my tushie can take. but id rather not ignore for now he may have something of value to add yet. I just wont feed.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mAdman on September 22, 2014, 09:03:38 AM
where is the fun in that? :/.

The fun lies in not being farmed like potatoes in PvP.

QFT +1 **thumbs up** :D
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: wojciech on September 22, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
No way, pvp is pvp and there is no need for training or something. This idea sucks go away dumbass
Your mom.

Don't retaliate to him, almost every post he has made is like this. It seems every idea but his own "Sucks" and everyone else is a "dumbass". I think hes tryna troll...But hes not very good at that either. I got to the point of just scrolling past his posts when I see his avatar, there is never anything worth reading. Usually just insults followed by poorly executed and uneducated remarks.

BUT back on track, I think its a good idea, it wouldn't kill PvP imo, I'd love a training area/shooting range.

Ye I agree insulting =/ good trolling. I just used his language.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on September 22, 2014, 09:24:41 AM
-1

You can find PvP in the core, especially if you see a timer going on.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 10:51:58 AM
-1

You can find PvP in the core, especially if you see a timer going on.
Thank you, at least I'm not that crazy to think that this game already has too many "non-fallout" things.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Stem Sunders on September 22, 2014, 11:13:11 AM
-1

You can find PvP in the core, especially if you see a timer going on.
Thank you, at least I'm not that crazy to think that this game already has too many "non-fonline" things.

Its already pretty different from what the single player games are. the entire idea of having multiple people playing at the same time or even pvp in any form isn't fallout right? Its fonline.

So whats the point of not adding new features because its "non-fallout"?



Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 11:30:52 AM
Harsh - this FOnline has too much "baby-sitting".
Locations that are limited only for you with no possibility of some1 to come and ruin your day.
Bases, where you can store your loot.
NPC-guards that help you.. eh.
I understand that w\o this there will be close to none players left playing, and that's why all above is completely fine.
Add some more?
Surprised no1 suggested to add a "pvp-flag" which you can turn off in order to be invincible to other players... coz, y'know, to learn.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mAdman on September 22, 2014, 11:46:40 AM
What about new players? And forming teams of people who know what they are doing instead of just calling for randoms off the street from hq?

We don't all belong to clans and we don't all have years of fonline pvp experience under our belt, it'd be nice to be able to get to know the mechanics, hotkeys and basic strategies involved in a friendly environment, and with the bans for TKing in place, it's a good way to let of steam for some of the more competitive players.

I just don't think it would detract from pvp as much as you think it would, in fact it would add to pvp, as people going into ZCs would have some clue of what to do and what not to do, even if this is the first fallout they have ever played.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Myakot on September 22, 2014, 12:13:08 PM
mAdman, I once visited FOnline2's and 2238's forums... After reading everything and experiencing it all first-hand.. I don't want that shit happen to this server.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 22, 2014, 12:42:06 PM
You seem afraid of that I suggest to lower the game's difficulty.
I am not suggesting that.

I just suggest an opportunity to raise the newer players' skill level without being been demoralized by defeat and loss of equipment.
The game mechanics should continue to be difficult, it's just the players I wish to be better and act smart in zone control.

I suggest that the training arena will hold no rewards for the player character.
Except for the player itself, whether it be amusement or understanding.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Stem Sunders on September 22, 2014, 02:10:42 PM
Who ever wants less options raise your hand....
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: faopcurious on September 22, 2014, 08:54:43 PM
You are missing the point, what if you want to duel someone in faction without losing rep?
stop with your retarded excuses and just +1 me.
The idea rocks ^_^.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on September 22, 2014, 08:57:52 PM
-1

You want to PvP? go fight each other in the core
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mAdman on September 23, 2014, 03:46:42 AM
I notice the same guys saying its a bad idea are also Fonline veterans part of huge and trained clans..

Just saiyan.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: The Brazilian Slaughter on September 23, 2014, 04:02:27 AM
I like this idea. I can totally imagine us training newbs in the finer points of PvP* and training our veterans into the finer points of leadership. Formations, positioning, coping against anti-crowd and anti-camp tactics, fighting campers, snipers, shotgunners, what do about traps, etc. Not to mention building team spirit.

Also, resolve team disputes through duels, and testing builds.



*
- STOP LOOTWHORING, FAGGOTS!
- FFS, KEEP THAT DOOR CLOSED! MORON!
- YOUR POSITION IS BAD, CHANGE POSITION!
- DO YOU LIKE GETTING SNIPED OR SOMETHING? GET INTO COVER, TARD!
- DON'T RUSH AFTER BAIT, NIMRODS!
- STOP FRIENDLY-FIRING WITH SHOTGUN/BURST, NOOB!
- GET AWAY FROM THE WINDOWS!
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 23, 2014, 04:06:55 AM
I notice the same guys saying its a bad idea are also Fonline veterans part of huge and trained clans..

Just saiyan.

If they are so experienced, then why aren't they able to prove why it is so bad?
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mojuk on September 23, 2014, 04:24:11 AM
Quote
I notice the same guys saying its a bad idea are also Fonline veterans part of huge and trained clans.
Or just people who had a chance to witness how such places successfully limit pvp in game on other servers.

Training in safe environment, no loot - safe/free gear and so on in most cases gives very bad habits that will lead to fast death (ramboing). Also it is very common to see people who usually fight bravely in first line in such places to still stay at back of their team or being first to run/hide because they are not used to losing gear.

Get your friends, equip regular stuff and go rampage in core - you will learn much more and faster than by shooting safely in base. Die, die a lot until you learn not to die so much. Best way to learn it is to learn it the hard way.
Simple combat related things you can train with friends on assignments, ok npcs are stupid and ai is abusable but still you can try making lines, taking covers, positioning in windows, even healing friends under fire, providing covering fire and such. There are many ways to learn out there, you just have to get out of safe base...

As for testing damage simple dummy would be enough or even that no rep lose in private base but you can check that way now, reputation lose is not big if you do this right.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Aco on September 23, 2014, 04:27:24 AM
And kill PVP with that. Every1 will just farm a single piece of T3 and will happily pvp each other in the base, w/o losing anything.

You re wrong. Training pvp in base is old tradition, but You re newbie in fallout online so You will not understand it.

you crack me up with every post u make... You're the biggest newbie to FOnline, u play what? few month's? FOnline been out for like 5 years. heh
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Stem Sunders on September 23, 2014, 04:45:45 AM
The more I think on this post the more I think the vets are right here.

They have seen all the others and perhaps know what's best for keeping some form of balance?...Or they want all the power for themselves :p but I very much doubt its that petty.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mAdman on September 23, 2014, 04:47:22 AM
OK, as far as prior examples go, (I played fonline a bit, but not for pvp for example), I really am out of my depth, as I have not been a part of the fonline pvp community (up until now I guess). So I will have to defer to your greater knowledge of these things but,

As you say people who play the rambo and the coward in these no gain pvp training areas will likely be the same ones doing it in real pvp, and thus people can identify and avoid them before they ruin an entire ZC and get 15 people killed.

As for trial by fire or the "deep end" theory, yeah it works somewhat, especially with people who enjoy greater difficulty learning curves. But getting slaughtered by greater numbers and tactics repeatedly teaches most little to nothing besides that they need to change factions to stand a chance.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 23, 2014, 04:47:43 AM
Training in safe environment, no loot - safe/free gear and so on in most cases gives very bad habits that will lead to fast death (ramboing). Also it is very common to see people who usually fight bravely in first line in such places to still stay at back of their team or being first to run/hide because they are not used to losing gear.

I am getting mixed signals here, you say they will get a habit of rushing and running away?
Running away from a battle isn't a bad thing if you know you are losing, it's no good to sacrifice your life for nothing.

Quote
Best way to learn it is to learn it the hard way.

I can agree with that, but I still think we should have a place where we can fight each other in the faction without losing reputation.

Quote
Simple combat related things you can train with friends on assignments, ok npcs are stupid and ai is abusable but still you can try making lines, taking covers, positioning in windows, even healing friends under fire, providing covering fire and such.

No the AI is way too foolish for that, all they do is rush up to your face and shoot. Only tactic you learn is luring.
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: mojuk on September 23, 2014, 05:43:29 AM
I am getting mixed signals here, you say they will get a habit of rushing and running away?
Running away from a battle isn't a bad thing if you know you are losing, it's no good to sacrifice your life for nothing.
Mhm. It usually applies to rushing/chasing single enemy (very often a bait or scout) that in most cases leads to death of the attacker. Also trying to fight without support with group of enemies by windows or doors.
As for running away... no it's not ok to run away if the rest of your team is still fighting. If in situation when 8 of you face 10 you decide that it's lost and start running away it's 7 vs 10, than 2 more will see you running = 5 vs 10 so enemy will just run over your teammates now just for you to have a chance to escape. That's not the best teamwork example wouldn't you say? That's the running away I was referring to. Same goes for hiding. If in 10 vs 10 open space fight there will be 3 people in one team that after first shots will decide to take cover, heal, regen ap than it's 7 vs 10 again.

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No the AI is way too foolish for that, all they do is rush up to your face and shoot. Only tactic you learn is luring.
Sure, if you lure 1 npc, kill it with few friends, lure another one then it does not sound interesting at all.
You see only npc running forward and luring but what more do you need?

If lured well you can train making lines to share fov (field of view) for windows, enemies passing corner so that when one person see enemy you all can shot at him, not only half of people standing in line.
Make line up, lure as many npc as you can without dying and you can practice a lot of things: focusing fire (also choosing primary targets very fast), helping friends in need (learn to know when it's better to give first aid to somebody or provide covering fire/eliminate attacker) and many more, really.

You have a chance to learn how move in group (always somebody with high perception in front, bursters behind him so that they don't have to run 20 more hexes (possibly under enemy line) just to go in front of all snipers running first), take position when you spotted enemy (to avoid heavy burster deploying at back of your team or everyone standing in front of burster line), cutting fov while running.

Even standing npc can be of a good use. You know where npc is "on GO! we run 4 hex right, make a line up, shot and go back, 3, 2, 1, GO!" see how it goes and repeat. Same goes for making lines with same fov in windows.

Learn to rush corners. Very important, not many teams does it good or remember to do it the right way during fight.

As you can see there is a lot to do even without shooting, all you need is just few people, map and some free time.  Thinking that if you get to shoot 10k bullets in training room will make you better fighter is wrong :)
Title: Re: Dueling area.
Post by: Armadingo on September 23, 2014, 06:10:43 AM
As for running away... no it's not ok to run away if the rest of your team is still fighting. If in situation when 8 of you face 10 you decide that it's lost and start running away it's 7 vs 10(...)

If you're fighting while outnumbered, you're taking a big risk if you don't have an advantage. It's objectively a bad idea to go against odds, those who keep fighting doesn't know any better. Run and recover before you lose your equipment and stand no chance later on, don't let the strong become stronger.
Of course it's bad teamwork to split the team, therefore everyone should run when it looks grim.

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Same goes for hiding.

No, dead bodies are more useless than people recovering.

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(...)You have a chance to learn how move in group(...)

I'll give you that, that's a good argument.

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Thinking that if you get to shoot 10k bullets in training room will make you better fighter is wrong

Of course not. I was thinking if players were pitted against each other it would be more of a battle of wits, where you can learn about a bit more advanced combat.