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[mAdman]

I appreciate everyone who cares about what we're doing here and the best response I have is to continue development!

Love your work Cirn0.

[good guy]

its good to see that the game is still going

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

Large PvP clans dont want to share factions , if they can build own bases the fonline communitty will shift back here
whatever else be dungeon , PVE , gameplay , maps , quests ..... wont do
and letting them build own bases is not bad
bases for Clans
Factions for random ppl

yeeeess

[naossano]

bases for Clans
Factions for random ppl

In short, ZC for clans, and assignements for random people.
I can't believe you want to destroy the whole server identity so the name of your buddies can appear on the timer...
If you want clans, go on Fonline 2. If am sure the players there will gladly open their closed clans for you.

[lvhoang]

bases for Clans
Factions for random ppl

In short, ZC for clans, and assignements for random people.
I can't believe you want to destroy the whole server identity so the name of your buddies can appear on the timer...
If you want clans, go on Fonline 2. If am sure the players there will gladly open their closed clans for you.

QFT

[paragon]

In short, ZC for clans, and assignements for random people.
I can't believe you want to destroy the whole server identity so the name of your buddies can appear on the timer...
If you want clans, go on Fonline 2. If am sure the players there will gladly open their closed clans for you.

I can't see how new players will destroy the whole server identity (not sure what is it anyway). He and many others stated completely different and worthy reason: ability to play with friends.
If you watch the current state of server it's pretty simple: no organized groups at all, no closed clans at all, almost no players. Is it what called server identity in your idea?

The problem is simple: some people are going to play only with friends or not play at all. It seems that without such people it'll be very hard to populate server for a long time, because those bands hold the community bringing chance to struggle (or even suffer) giving the purpose of learning and getting better.

How exactly ability to join separated "loners" group will not random people play?
If you have no separated players group nothing will change for you except that you'll finally have some opponents (which I believe much more important).

If you have any better idea to populate the server, bring it on.

[Anza]

What Nao means is that by allowing clans to make their own faction, you remove the essence of AoP which is to prevent clans to ruin loners/new players/casual players experience. At the moment, although it's also due to lack of people, people in factions play together in ZC and that is great.

If there were clans, they will stomp on random people factions, making them stop the game sooner or later. This is not what AoP was targetting to begin with, it is even the opposite

[paragon]

"Ruin loners/new players/casual players experience" how? By being experienced and better in the game?
"it's also due to lack of people, people in factions play together in ZC" - while in AoP actually were more than 20 players people played together in ZC as well. And some player experience was ruined because some people are not mature enough to play in team. You kill enemy and deserves his loot - but useless loner picks up loot from him, so you have to kill him (stealing is bad). But still every organized group prefered to have any amount of back up to fight enemy, so every mature loner was in deal.

So I think that essence of AoP is letting players be useless / not learn / have 2 zone controls in a day because of low player base?

I think this will make people stop playing much faster (which is done).

[Anza]

"Ruin loners/new players/casual players experience" how? By being experienced and better in the game?

Yes and you know it, experienced players stomp on casual that's a fact, but in Fonline servers, most experienced clans like this position and dont accept/help newcomers and chain kill them with hate. Just read most Pvp Discussions on forums it's always Ego ego ego. AoP is the first server to force experienced players to play with those new/casual players so they can learn.

Your only example against that is that some blue suits looters come to free loot, everybody hate that, but it's a downside for community to grow stronger in experience and bounding. Of course the gameplay is not perfectly fit for that, but it is the first Fonline server to go in this direction and that's what I love about it.

I mean if you want to have clans wars, which is the opposite of AoP faction wars core system, why did you even come here instead of playing Reloaded or FO2 ? They do very good on that, no need to deny that.

And the lack of players atm is mostly due to FO2 wipe AND the fast that the gameplay is far from perfect. Still the game is enjoyable, mechanics ideas are awesome and really different, and I do apply to the faction wars system

[naossano]

You kill enemy and deserves his loot - but useless loner picks up loot from him, so you have to kill him (stealing is bad).

Not i am the guy that come in bluesuits to loot bodies i didn't shoot, but those guys that aren't mature enough to accept that they can't control all the loot are not better than the noobs they are shooting at. I rather have those noobs and lose some loot opportunities than have my faction chat spammed by those troll that keep whining about that Minigun or combat armor they should have looted. I would even say that those trolls made some of my team mates leave the faction and join another one with less whiners. Anyway, the stuff is so easy to get (at least  compared with other servers) that the loot is often a non-issue.

There is the spy issue, but it is easily countered by making private squad/platoon within the faction, and still allow noobs and players of intermediate level to join the action, or be defended when scavenging.

PS: By the way, open faction don't prevent you to play with friend. You can both play with your friends and meet new friends in open factions.

[paragon]

"Experienced players stomp on casual that's a fact"
I suspect you didn't play the beginning of the session, when experienced clans could win only using back up of newcomers. In the same time I count myself as an experienced players, who played with lawyers in the beginning, and then with v-tec, I've never stomp anyone and most of experienced players I play with never did.

"Just read most Pvp Discussions on forums"
Just listen what randoms in game say about most of people from different faction. There's no connection between experience and hate, just players by itself hater and experienced can expressed it at least no only in words but in actual in-game fights and activities. I've been insulted by clan-less family for dozen times for just being in different faction.

My example is playerbase and actual ability to have an opponent. I don't see any growing community, I see players which doesn't play because they have no one to play with and against which could never come back to Fonline world.

If you watch the graphs you'll see that AoP playerbase never been connected to any other server wipes. And PvP is here better than at any other server but it's not used just because there are not enough players and experienced+organized players to use it.

naossano, I see randoms whining about loot much more often than experienced players. As well as randoms stealing loot from fallen friendlies which then whining that they have been killed for it (and, oh my, lost their loot which usually nobody tries to take... except other randoms, lol).

How the hell anyone wouldn't be able to join the action if faction system stays the same?

[naossano]

They just need to install the client, join a faction and do ZC with them...

Dunno in which faction you were, but amongs the lawyers, the most whiners were part of the most numerous platoon and had high fame. They thought that they were more entitled to whine because of that. On the other hand, they were the first to rush on the loot. (although, i don't want to make a case about that. I don't hold grudge agains't them. I just found them very annoying and i don't think they had the "team spirit" while acting like that)

[paragon]

why dont you do ZC naossano?

[Anza]

I suspect you didn't play the beginning of the session, when experienced clans could win only using back up of newcomers. In the same time I count myself as an experienced players, who played with lawyers in the beginning, and then with v-tec, I've never stomp anyone and most of experienced players I play with never did.

That's exactly what I am saying, and what makes AoP unique. Newcomers/Casuals have a role, experimented players need them and they need exp players. So you can see it works when there are lot of people, only drawback is troll bluesuit looters.

Now let's think what would happen with same population but clans + factions. Clans will fight each other happily, and random faction will get crushed everytime. Sooner or later, there will be only clans doing ZC, and we'll be back to Reloaded or FO2.

You're totally wrong about your graphs, most Lawyers went to FO2, it was one of the swarm faction and now it's empty. Same with BB, they had a team (maszrum ? I'm not sure) which went to FO2. Pistoleros from VTech went to FO2 too. All after wipe. If they prefer to play in clans, there is no issue about that, but they went to a server that suits them. And again, there's nothing wrong about that.

How the hell anyone wouldn't be able to join the action if faction system stays the same?

I guess you wanted to say "if faction system were to change", and it is because random faction will get tired of getting bullied by clans, etc

[paragon]

> most Lawyers went to FO2

Who exactly? I knew almost only 1 organized band in lawyers which made the whole ZC for them - New Order, and they didn't go Fo2 but Requiem AFAIN. It was just 5-6 experienced guys to the end with help of randoms. I think also there were BBS? Following new order mostly, and not active in zc by themself.
One of the reasons to leave: no stable / not enough opponents to fight.

> Same with BB
They had several organized _clans_ almost without randoms. Mostly Russians, with help of several different bands (Pistoleros, Mushroom's), which didn't last long because clans had different perspectives on how to play the game.
Later Mushroom joint family but didn't succeed to make any of the randoms to be sustainable fighters and left because couldn't fight against organized / experienced / swarming lawyers and v-tec.
Pistoleros joint v-tec and played with us for a while, then left because "had to play with noobs" and no stable / not enough opponents to fight.
Russian platoons were separated and outnumbered then, and BBoys as ZC faction didn't appear for a month. Now there's playing 1 Russian platoon, which can't communicate effectively with others, so they feel outnumbered and outgunned (although they are comparing to v-tec).

Those clans would glad to play this server, but low player base and some "noob/have to play with people I hate issues" for them were the reason to leave. Server where to doesn't mean anything.

Quite a lot of gangs tried but didn't succeed in communicating with each over, what leads to current 20 players online, where v-tec is dominating and nobody can't oppose anything, so v-tec get bored and stopping to play as well. So you'll have immersioned komrade and bunch of other players which doesn't try to play the team game as a team (implying family and other randoms which are not "clan" and not trying to be).

Now as I said I consider myself as an experienced players and currently play with 90% new people I've never talk to before I joint AoP. You can call us "clan", because we are trying to be organized and have a common leaders. This process is natural and it's great that there's such a possibility for it as pre-arranged factions. But, if v-tec has no those experienced leaders, people don't really play / able to play. And experienced leaders are not going to play if it's boring (no decent pvp like currently).

In time of many players pre-arranged gangs had 20+ players in combat, no clans usually can gather so much, so they won't be able to "bull" anything.


Again, I'm not telling that other servers faction system should be applied fully in AoP (although I don't see any harm from it IF "open pre-arranged factions" have leaders and manpower), but it's obvious that you don't understand the situation that well as you think.

In the same time as there're a lot of stuff is going to be added which will bring some old / new players back, as far as I know one of the things will be expansion to 8 pre-arranged factions which actually should mostly solve the problem.
(but someone in the Internet wasn't correct, so I needed to fix it)

[lvhoang]

why dont you do ZC naossano?

He is - but with 3 players online with the Lawyers, you wont see them capture a lot of zones.

[nailbrain]

V-teks"dominating" the core

[paragon]

Spoiler for Hiden:

V-teks"dominating" the core

Thank you for the great example of random player whose hate is much bigger than ability to create and cooperate. That one had ability to join v-tec organized group but cared about looting random dead bodies much more and never wanted to share his existence with "main party" of the v-tec. Thus his hate is so much right now, that he's posting a screenshot to insult someone while we are discussing about the world problems.

[Stem Sunders]

Here is a pic of suff cooperating/sharing existence with a team.

and a pic of Law trying to ZC (only shows 2 but there were 4 or 5)

You only see everything for your point of view, others may not be thinking what you are.

Not trying to insult you.

[nailbrain]

thou most of what paragon said is true
i dont understand wat is bad bout clans
clans will run their shit the same way they do in all servers , but all other loners, pve ,carebears will be part of one of four faction
what bettere way for them to be introduced to teamplay , pvp , tactics, and number of ppl to back you up
average clan size 15 ppl 6 7 more promient clans exist lets say 100 ppl
on good days server was filled with 350 pp
350-100=250 250/4~60 ppl on average for faction
now dat crude numbers will produce myriad of aliances , intrigue , politics-PVP
random dudes tend to follow where the player mass goes so statement dat AOP is better suited for clanless ppl is invalid
somebody sayed dat clans will stomp the factions , just imagine the horde of faction players camping their gates along the nasty grid patrols , so you and your brave clanmates are going to kick some other clan ass BUT, u must enter the core
at first it is easy BUT in time cuz clan people like to kill anyone suddenly WHOLE core is hostile cuz u know u cant take zones
yet your sworn enemy by chance is less ashole than u and befriend certain faction
and so on........................