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[twat]

cost = gold nugget + one experience level

[Stem Sunders]

I really think 3 builds + a fee for alterations is perfectly reasonable.


Cuz its expensive to alter clones.

Spoiler for Hiden:

"You see...Yourself, suspended in some kind of gel filled tube..."

Interact with these to change to one of your pre-set rolls! Sorta making magical reforms lore friendly!

Shouldn't be too hard...right?

Just a thought.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

The reason why I'm against having these pre-made slots is what if you want to make a modification to them? Like taking a different trait or perk, etc. I'd really hate it if I have to spend caps just to make a small modification. Caps are better off spent on equipment, not making rerolls.

Besides, why can't it just be as it is now? I see nothing wrong with it. And for sure as hell see no possibility of it being "abused"

[mAdman]

The reason why I'm against having these pre-made slots is what if you want to make a modification to them?

Or if changes are made to the game and you want to switch them up slightly etc, yeah that could be annoying, but the rerolls that exist would still function alongside the "slots" system, so they could still be utilised for alterations and customisation etc.

Perhaps limiting free rerolls by time (e.g. one per week) and by location (i.e. only in room/base) would give leeway for "fixing mistakes" and testing builds and the like, then by forcing excessive rerolls to pay somehow (money, rep, XP) would deter using rerolls as a combat tactic.

EDIT; those "Roll chamber" pics look great Stem +1, very fallouty I guess they would go in peoples rooms?

[Teela]

The reason why I'm against having these pre-made slots is what if you want to make a modification to them? Like taking a different trait or perk, etc. I'd really hate it if I have to spend caps just to make a small modification. Caps are better off spent on equipment, not making rerolls.

Besides, why can't it just be as it is now? I see nothing wrong with it. And for sure as hell see no possibility of it being "abused"

Since you're going to be snek in Brahminboys until the end of times because nobody wants to play with you, what use could you have for unlimited rerolls?

[Shangalar]

I don't understand why some of you seem to want to give the game an even more pronounced feeling of a Hinkley 2.0. Why not simply give away all the optimized builds and let players choose between any of them? It makes no sense at all to me. It simply looks as a cheat code, or like you don't really wanna play anything else than HL PvP.  I don't understand the purpose of having three characters in one either. Why not simply let you transfer experience through your characters? It doesn't make more sense.

It also seems to go against our initial vision of characters leveling up on the battlefield alongside their mates and forces them to hide until max level even more. And perhaps this vision is not working, or is impossible to imagine. But I don't think it really is in the future.

The reason why I'm against having these pre-made slots is what if you want to make a modification to them? Like taking a different trait or perk, etc.

Carefully design your character in the first place.

I'd really hate it if I have to spend caps just to make a small modification. Caps are better off spent on equipment, not making rerolls.

So you can gather any type of stuff and use it yourself without having any relation/trade with any other player. Cool, no interactions. And besides, if you cannot play any char, you don't need as much caps to maintain any profile viable.

Besides, why can't it just be as it is now? I see nothing wrong with it. And for sure as hell see no possibility of it being "abused"

We typed reasons, perhaps you need to read them again.  And of course, it can't be abused. It's a total abuse already in itself if you think about it!

Rising costs on each reroll punishes good players that reroll to fix holes in the team composition.

Being a good player would actually imo be to adapt with your profile to the battle that's coming to you thanks to your scouts/faction mates info, and based on what you know from the enemy present on the battlefield and the profiles they use.

and benefits retards that play the same build every battle.

Since when playing the same profile on different battles is being a retard? Since when do you have to bring the exact same equipment with you and play the exact same way?

Sorry STALKER but it seems your vision of the game and the experience has evolved a way that is looks really far fetched to me. Or perhaps you just spent so much time playing that you became lazy towards any form of you what you consider being effort?

I just know I would be playing this game in the first place to create and evolve one character that I chose and live adventures with that character. Not having that breaks the single reason why I would come as a new player in the first place. And that's the same for any other RPG along the way. I'm not coming to play Battlefield here. I'm coming to play Fallout.

[Combatant]

I'm not coming to play Battlefield here. I'm coming to play Fallout.

Just as fact, AoP most closer to Battlefield and Counter Strike than any other server which I know. And it isn't bad. I do like play here because it looks like counter strike with scavenging on top of it. That's why all ways to simplify leveling/changing perks and skills perceived for me positively. I really wondering how server became way it is if it's developer think so different way about how it gotta be.

Dude, all those things you consider positively are the result of our design. So stop considering us to be against you...

I didn't get it at all. Against me? What?

[Shangalar]

Dude, all those things you consider positively are the result of our design. So stop considering us to be against you...

We just have to put barriers at some points, that's developing the game and have a vision and plans for it.

Besides, another argument:

I've read a lot of whine about swarms on the forums. Seems like most PvP sessions end up with one team yelling that the other swarms.  Do you realize that with full rerolls, you amplify the phenomenon? If you always fight against optimized characters who planned their build based on their number before coming to fight, you start with a stronger disadvantage for every character the other team has more than you. Creating small groups of players with profiles that play well altogether once and for all would be more efficient than a swarm of chars that are not adapted to each other, if they weren't able to prepare with rerolls beforehand.

[Kurwier]

I'm not coming to play Battlefield here. I'm coming to play Fallout.

Just as fact, AoP most closer to Battlefield and Counter Strike than any other server which I know. And it isn't bad. I do like play here because it looks like counter strike with scavenging on top of it. That's why all ways to simplify leveling/changing perks and skills perceived for me positively. I really wondering how server became way it is if it's developer think so different way about how it gotta be.

happens when noone is around that contributes some good ideas , but not only ideas , also quests and writing , i mean im all in for shangalaars ideas ... but on the other hand it needs alot of work , and for now i dont see anyone with good writing skill or questideas , in the end it also needs coding sometimes even new art so u see 3 different specilaists getting together is always hard to organise, well atleast noone around willing to do it i guess ... but i would also love to see more pve content with some more specific bigger questlines in all different factions to get a better feeling in the core when theres no big time pvp also for more immershun and for the great basic lore it already has ...

[Shangalar]

Indeed Kurwier but there are different approaches. We can imagine activities that don't rely on a single epic predefined scenario but on PvE/PvP contents, more adapted to MMOs. For sure I'd like more quests and I once had plans for them, but that's a whole different topic anyway.

[naossano]

Besides, why can't it just be as it is now? I see nothing wrong with it. And for sure as hell see no possibility of it being "abused"

It is already abused every time a player change build for several battle of the same day, to counter the build/weapon used by enemies. Reroll isn't there to make characters able to do everything, provided that they have 3 minutes to tape the new reroll build.

It is a tool to adapt your character after a changelog that render some of you perks/traits/skills/etc useless, or to correct some mistakes of your build, to a certain extend (i think the initial limit was 3 reroll at the beginning of the server), as the characters planners aren't perfect yet and all the combat features fully known by newcomers. It can also have an extra use for testing purpose, if the dev want all of use to suddenly use grenades or spears, because those specific items are the ones dev want to balance at the moment.

But rerolls aren't a PVP feature that are supposed to give an edge to those who reroll the most in a single day. You aren't testing, you aren't fixing a mistake, when you keep changing your characters every days/hours/battles/assault for several weeks/months in a row. You are supposed to play a role in the game. Unlimited reroll and camouflage break that thing by making everyone replacable and homogeneous, while the team should adapt to the build of its members, not change them to an "always the same" combination.

Ideally there wouldn't be abusers, just testers. But it is specifically because the abuse are already happening that there is talk about cost. If everyone was already fair, there wouldn't be any need for a rule.

[Kurwier]

Indeed Kurwier but there are different approaches. We can imagine activities that don't rely on a single epic predefined scenario but on PvE/PvP contents, more adapted to MMOs. For sure I'd like more quests and I once had plans for them, but that's a whole different topic anyway.

well i got some simple ideas too but in the end i always hear aop is a pvp server and so on

the idea im talking about is or was  to give each faction some bigger questline where u can obtain the faction cmbt armor and maybe mk2 ...

these 2 armors have same stats as regular combat armor mk2 and 3 , so my idea was to make the faction ones rarer , roleplay type of armor , something which looks cool ... and that it would be neat if u could gain it through a quest or some questline where u have to earn it in some roleplay way with retrivieng x y item from specific place or any other simple objective , like killing this member from the family if u are a member of the jjjla ( some specific npc in special location ...) that it fit into some lore ... ofcourse this rquires some maps , scripting and writing .

i got plenty ideas , i could also make some maps for such purposes and some simple concept idea , only thing which i suck at is scripting the scripting stuff u need for the npcs , locations etc. and ofcourse writing since english isnt my mothertongue

[Shangalar]

To conclude this digression Kurwier, I would say this:

Once second season starts, the game should look much closer to its final form. And that will be the moment to conceive and introduce such content. You can already try to design something concrete on your side or with anyone wishing to contribute.

I think you should not be simply considering AoP as PvP or PvE, see it as a whole. We want players online, that's what we all want at the end. Have a populated world. And how do you please more players? By proposing different types of content that they like. The more you have, the more they'll be susceptible to give it a try, and stay.

[Kurwier]

To conclude this digression Kurwier, I would say this:

Once second season starts, the game should look much closer to its final form. And that will be the moment to conceive and introduce such content. You can already try to design something concrete on your side or with anyone wishing to contribute.

I think you should not be simply considering AoP as PvP or PvE, see it as a whole. We want players online, that's what we all want at the end. Have a populated world. And how do you please more players? By proposing different types of content that they like. The more you have, the more they'll be susceptible to give it a try, and stay.

well i try to see it as a whole thing , and atm the pvp side is clearly stronger than the pve one ... im glad for some stationary npcs from last changelogs , but imo this need to be polsihed more but its the right way ... about these quests its really hard to say what the best way would be , because we know that assignments didnt bring people into the core and the core from how i understand it or see it is one of the main features in aop ... but then again on the other hand u got this pve / pvp mixture which is really hard to balance , i mean i like if both things can be possible but i do also know that some things could be abused by camping etc. if not really good thought out and then it wouldnt be fun for pve players , so its really hard to bring pve / pvp together in some way that it would be somehow balanced ... i mean those quest i was speaking about cud be taking place on some small worldmap enco ofcourse it would need to be a onetime quest , other things (repeatable jobs / quests) i could also imagine directly in the core , like scavenging for some stuff and that u have been told that u have a high chance at x y map to find item x y , item could be put on rareloottable and things are fine , u know from beginning that its dangerous to go there because u could possible encounter other players and on the other hand nobody could camp a specific spot ( like some stairs etc. ) ...

[clochard]

I really like Stem idea of cloning cuves.
It really add to immertion in the game and make rerolling not just a bugfix like kind of interaction.
So I unsign the petition and agree with shangalar alternative, make us pay! 500 caps is nothing.

Also yes (to stay out of topic) core quests for objects retrieval and enemy/npcs killing is nice.

[Shangalar]

Kurwier: That's why I say wait until season 2 starts. Now end of off topic please

[Niamak]

You can just move the discussion to another thread if you want to continue huehue.

[RazorRamon]

Shangalar it seems to me like you wanna put the final nail into the aop coffin. Serious PVP players is the only crowd this server has and the things discussed here serve no other purpose than make the game less enjoyable for them.

Please no "adapting" with a single build arguments from someone that doesn't even play the game. There is no adapting. If you get countered by the enemy team and have no way of changing that with a reroll you just log off.

Reroll costs just dont add anything good or interesting to the game. All they do is further increase the time you have to waste until you see some player interaction.
And the Ratio of action to time spent playing is already horrible. If you get 5 minutes of actual fighting for being online a whole hour you can actually consider yourself lucky right now.

[Shangalar]

If you get countered by the enemy team and have no way of changing that with a reroll you just log off.

This sounds like rerolling is the only solution there is to win a fight. I don't know how we have to take that.

And the Ratio of action to time spent playing is already horrible. If you get 5 minutes of actual fighting for being online a whole hour you can actually consider yourself lucky right now.

Difficult to consider it otherwise with 20 players connected on higher peaks, which is an entirely other thing to me.

[Kurwier]

Shangalar it seems to me like you wanna put the final nail into the aop coffin.

Please no "adapting" with a single build arguments from someone that doesn't even play the game. There is no adapting. If you get countered by the enemy team and have no way of changing that with a reroll you just log off.

Reroll costs just dont add anything good or interesting to the game. All they do is further increase the time you have to waste until you see some player interaction.
And the Ratio of action to time spent playing is already horrible. If you get 5 minutes of actual fighting for being online a whole hour you can actually consider yourself lucky right now.

thats just due to low server population , also try to figure out why it is so low ... if free rerolls are that awesome why people stopped playing ? or time u need to spent to get equipment , oh right u dont need any so theres no need to be in the core  ... good logic u got here. right now people still running from each other instead of fighting because they fear the loose of something they got enough to pvp for whole years, or something which is almost free to them ... or they just take winning , loosing , pixelz too serious ... well i dunno , i cant explain that phenomenom but i see certain reasons why core is empty and why not so many people are left on server , because beside that enemy taking the game in actual state too serious and u get the actiontime u describe , which is boring to anyone that joins in current state , theres nuthing else to do , thats the thing. 

people just type !s every 1 min in irc instead of actually playing the game.