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[Count Matthew]

I hereby close this thread.

[John Porno]

teela best post in this thread yet.

Now I myself am guilty of typos way too often but structuring, as well as proper punctuation, are incredibly important.

Just to prove my point here, when you study english in a german university, you have to complete a class where all you have to do is to write a 5 paragraph argumentative essay on a given subject. If you write 4 paragraphs, you automatically fail. 6 paragraphs autofail. over or undershooting the word count bracket: autofail.

Literally not indenting each paragraph or leaving 2 lines of space between paragraphs rather than 1 when not indenting will also make you autofail.

It's surprising how many people autofail that class. People write how they think and just writing like this without any punctution which you are not guilty off here  i think but i also didnt check right now maybe you did or not im too lazy to check right now but writing like this is bad dont do it ok just in case

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

John ban yourself

[paragon]

> When there is no fast-relog/dual-log involved, alting creates no issues, give no upper hand, and isn't required. You don't have to make an alt for victory and you don't lose either if you do it. It comes to your own choice. (although it is more convenient for switching than having the same character change faction every time the current faction is too numerous. You just log character from faction X to play with faction X)'

It's been involved from the beginning of AoP, although in relatively soft form. Passive FTL alts, sneakers/scouts, characters left on the WM to come back in the fight in 2 minutes instead of 5-7 (depending on which gate you have to enter), I think I've seen it several of times in the combats but never was able to prove.

The real proble̖m is that player with 1 character have 1 build available to play for all situations. And if it's 94-hexes DSR build, than he shouldn't pla̶͈y̵͈ 75% of the̋ time due to night where DSR sucks, building fights, corner fights, window fights, being outnumbered, rushing, playing without scout etc etc etc. And playe̋r with 10 alts can play in any situation with 100% efficiency. If you take the tee̋m of no-life̖rs It's fading they will have 10 people with 10 alts each and ability to dom̸̄inate Why don't you hear me against 10 evening-time players with 1 build each because they will could dictate the condition they want to fight all the time. And casual players will have to agree and b̡̺̲ḙ̻̠ ̮͇̤d̙̰̫ọ͚̬ṃ̳̤i̮͖̯ņ̡̜a̢̜̫t̙͎̼ę̫̭ḑ̻͚ or stop playing at all. If casual players would be able to reroll in this situation, than alting wouldn't give any Death will bring you advantage, but it's not the fucking Z̴̦̺̥̉̽͘Á̸̧͈̗̏͠Ļ̷̧͖́̈́͂G̵͎̰̱̽͆̕ case.

In this case it is required to have multiple d̷͉̳̰͊̋̀į̵̫͛̉́͜f̸͚͚̖̒͆͝f̶̙̜̒̄̎ͅḛ̶̻̫̄̂͌ṙ̶͚̫̮̀̒ȅ̴̪̥̦̅̀n̴͔̮̞̿͗͊ṭ̴̨̢̄̀͑ ̷̖͔͙̽̓̃w̴̦̲̞̄̕͠o̶̧̲̜͛̂̎r̸̗̠̫̽̓͂l̶͎̖̿̍̚ͅd̷̰͋̓̅͜͜s̸̪̺̞̔̐͆ chars to be able to compete And try to stay alive with someone who has them. I'm not surprised that John is supporting this _{m̵͎̹͍̀̾̎à̵̰̟̮̐̿ḍ̴̨̠͐͗͒ń̸̳̯̞͒̓ḙ̶̗̰̄̓̋s̸̱̻̙̐̇̆s̸͓̝̦͊̈́͂ ̶̢̯̜̀̉̏m̸̢̙͇͆̐̋ä̴̘̤͎́̉͘ď̷͈̦̯̽͘n̴̻̱̤͗͋͒ȇ̵̺̯̲̓͌s̴̨̫̘̈́͛͝s̵̮̱̀̃̓͜} because he's never been required to fight s̴͈̹͖̏̐̔ů̷͍̮̫͗̀r̶͍͇̍́͘͜r̵̩̮͈͑̈͝ȇ̴̢̘̲̔̕n̴̩͓͔̍̀͠d̶̗̝̜̒̿̇e̸͇̼͈̔̈̏r̶͇̲̖̍̇̄ with one char in all situations or lead team with hard stuck loadout. Sorry John, but it took very weak a̶̟̭̙͌̔͠ñ̵̨͙̉͘ͅd̵͖̞͔͛͗̚ ̷̧̖̺̆̋͝t̸̰̼̳̑̾͝h̴͕̦͉̊͐͂i̶̧̛̤̝͌͠n̵̬̜̺̿̈́̏ ̶̤͙͍̅͛͠ḁ̴̧̼͒͌͘s̸͓̠͎̈́̇́ ̶̘͖̝̾̈́́y̵̡̲̙̎̏͗ơ̷̢̛͈͗ͅu̵͕͓̯̅̋͘r̴̝͈̀͒͜͠ ̴̱͎̬͆̄͝l̵̙͔͓̐͐̑ì̷̘̫̘̐̐f̵̺̰̰̿̾̍ẻ̵̖̱͚͌̔ point to favorite.

I described this situation 3-4 times and ĩ̵̳̯͇̊̾f̴̳͎̜̋̓̕ ̷̣̲͎̿̊́y̸̙͖̥͆͐̏o̴͎̤͈͒̉̿ú̷̮̥̮͌͝ ̴̟͇́̓̇ͅh̴̦̦͑͘͜͠a̸͕͎̦͒͊͒v̸̡̘̥̓̍͝ḛ̵̡̪̏̆̆ñ̵̪̟̩͛͝'̷̨̜̝͗͆͛ţ̴̛̞͋̂͜ ̸̫͇͓̓̈̀g̵̟͙͍̓̊̚ò̴̼̼̰̿͝t̷̞̤̎̃̉͜ ̴̳̫̘͊̚̚ï̶̱̫͉̅͝t̷̢̛̙̥͒̈́ ̴̠̭͗̒͜͠y̸͈̼̰͋̈́̈ẻ̴̙̗́̑͜ẗ̴̠̮͈́͊̚ until now NOW OR NEVER, and call ability to have alts "not required, no upper hand" than you're really talking b̴̦̰̱̅̾̄l̴̮͓̲̔̌̓a̶̫͉̙͑̒͘c̵̡͖̜͊̈̅k̶̢̰͇͊͐͝ ̷̢̡̪̏͛̃l̴̢͍̲̐̊́ĩ̴̦̦̩̽̽q̴̼̮͎̒̈́̀u̸̟̮̿́̚͜ị̷̧͉̈͊̋ḋ̷̗̹̹̌̆ about something you have no idea about İ̴̛̠̭̬̔T̵̼̝͇̑̐͝ ̴̰͔̱̀̔̔C̴̳̱̟̐̃̍Ơ̴̱̪̗͛̈M̴̘̗̼͑̄̇È̸̻͖͉͗̏S̷̨̱͙̄̑̈́.

[Count Matthew]

Introduce a testing area for builds inside the firing range. Where they can mix and match all the SPECIAL STATS and perks etc.

Give people three builds to make and change between for free.

If they wish to modify any of those builds they have to pay a very high price indeed.

Problem solved?

Good idea!

[naossano]

teela best post in this thread yet.

Now I myself am guilty of typos way too often but structuring, as well as proper punctuation, are incredibly important.

Just to prove my point here, when you study english in a german university, you have to complete a class where all you have to do is to write a 5 paragraph argumentative essay on a given subject. If you write 4 paragraphs, you automatically fail. 6 paragraphs autofail. over or undershooting the word count bracket: autofail.

Literally not indenting each paragraph or leaving 2 lines of space between paragraphs rather than 1 when not indenting will also make you autofail.

It's surprising how many people autofail that class. People write how they think and just writing like this without any punctution which you are not guilty off here  i think but i also didnt check right now maybe you did or not im too lazy to check right now but writing like this is bad dont do it ok just in case

Well, i only talked about one thing, within a single flow on my last post. It would have been out of place to write more than one paragraph and trick you into believing that i mentioned several topic, or that i wanted to separate it into parts for emphasis. It was on one paragraph on purpose.

This isn't for denying Teela wish for more structured post with several paragraph to separate ideas within a single text and i am sometimes guilty of not separating enough. Just want to make clear that it was on purpose on last post. (even considered the idea of paragraph separation when posting it. It just felt out of place for this one.)

(Still, the fact it was on purpose doesn't mean i was automatically right)

[Niamak]

Just to prove my point here, when you study english in a german university

Meanwhile in France, english classes are terrible.

[MARXMAN]

 And casual players will have to agree and b̡̺̲ḙ̻̠ ̮͇̤d̙̰̫ọ͚̬ṃ̳̤i̮͖̯ņ̡̜a̢̜̫t̙͎̼ę̫̭ḑ̻͚ or stop playing at all.

   You've finally figured it out, congrats. Casual players HAVE agreed to stop playing because of the insane domination by min-maxing no-lifers. Its the mentality, and it cannot be changed. Alts, no walls mods, scripts, even rerolls now, are part of the same "Its only fun to win everytime" section IMO. I am not that concerned about changing up what I love doing in fallout all the goddamn time just to pretend like AoP is seriously competetive or something. I want people to have to fucking think about what they do, and create MORE FUCKING VERSATILE BUILDS instead of maxing out the stats for your only role to play.  Your problem is you want to be able to min-max on the fly, and I don't think thats fair to be able to completely change your playstyle in 2 mins and now anything anyone knew about your playstyle is useless. It makes knowing how people play and what they're likely to do not a factor, which is just plain wrong; You have camo for that.

  When I started, this game seemed to reward being more flexible with weapon and tactic choices, rather than the min maxing shit I described. Making rerolls cost something would make people create chars for a wider variety of roles, rather than super-duper specialization. Either that or people would just create 10 alts and be total asshats like I expect out of the FOnline community.

[RazorRamon]

or people would just create 10 alts and be total asshats like I expect out of the FOnline community.

congratulations you just dismantled all of your arguments yourself

free rerolls = level playing field for everyone instead of advantage for people with enough time to make 10 chars

[paragon]

I and every competitive player will play only "min-max" build anyway. So the question is will I have 10 min-max builds or 1.

[Kurwier]

10 is better

[twat]

good luck leveling up 10 guys to level whatever they need 50-100 next season.

[MARXMAN]

or people would just create 10 alts and be total asshats like I expect out of the FOnline community.

congratulations you just dismantled all of your arguments yourself

free rerolls = level playing field for everyone instead of advantage for people with enough time to make 10 chars

And thats whats sad. The exploitative mindset of players in Fonline. No matter what way it gets put people are going to find a way to game the system. Free rerolls or not people who have a lot of time on their hands are just going to win regardless. I would like them not to be free so I could stick with a build and learn to be better with that build, not constantly swithcing what Im doing around and never having time to get used to what Im doing. Most people here (myself not included) are experienced fonline vets. You know what you like, you know how to use what, its not an issue for you to move around gear. "Casual" players don't know how everything works, don't know all the tricks of every weapon class and dmg modifiers etc etc. It takes time to learn how to play a certain way, and with free rerolls newbs get other people imposing their will on them and basically ordering them to change up their builds every fight, which only serves to make them more confused oftentimes and detriments their ability to play a role.

I and every competitive player will play only "min-max" build anyway. So the question is will I have 10 min-max builds or 1.

   Competetive? I understand friendly competition but the way you treat it is unhealthy in my opinion. There just isn't a way for players who aren't  "serious" fallout savants to play without feeling like they're completely useless at the hands of people who spend days pondering builds. I'm not saying thats a bad thing (to ponder your builds wisely), but this game will never have a large playerbase due to the people that inhabit it.

  I think the root of the problem isn't rerolls, its the players. Funny enough this is the friendliest Fonline I've ever played, but as a relative newb to most of it I've rarely had constructive critisism thrown at me. It's either direct commands (which aren't a problem but its not like anyone wants to discuss anything to find out why you didnt want to do something), "git gud", or "Stop playing the way you like to." The community has to change it's mindset if it wants anyone but the most "hardcore" players to play on it.

tldr; Its not rerolls that are the issue. Its all of us.

[Combatant]

Funny enough this is the friendliest Fonline I've ever played, but as a relative newb to most of it I've rarely had constructive critisism thrown at me.

Change your faction You 'll be pleasantly surprised.

[paragon]

"min-maxed" build will work from 24 level. You don't really require levels, because you can't reroll and "min-max" main character. It's an certain disadvantage, sure, but I will certainly take I'll explain why.

I thought about "min-maxed" builds and would honestly want to now what do you exactly call by it. Could you show me min-maxed and balanced DSR? min-maxed and balanced RL/milkor builds? min-maxed and balanced close-range (shotgun etc) builds? For me it'd be pretty hard task, maybe i'm just bad at character-building.
If you think that you can make balanced build for DSR/RL/milkor/close range in the same time, than I will certainly say that nobody needs rerolls.

Then I though about "no upper hand" in alting and it reminded me how people were complaining that killing somebody in 15vs15 fights didn't matter. Because they were able to come back in the fight too soon and positions weren't changed so they just took their gear and fought again. If my team will have to create several 24 level characters, I will encourage everyone to use them the same way, leaving characters on the wm and joining battle with an alt as soon as possible. Basic wave fighting from any other Fonline, it's just a huge luck that it hasn't been seen here before much.

Than Marxman you're telling everyone to "get used to one build to get better with it", as someone from your team stated many times, your builds are probably pretty bad. I don't mind if you personally don't care and don't want to learn. But I mind a lot if you mess with everyone else who would love to improve and get better with the character building and mechanics understanding but they can't because you personally don't want to reroll. I don't see how playing with shit build will teach you anything except that you probably suck at the game.

I, "as experienced Fonline vet", can play any role from sneaker and CC to DSR, and I have no reason to limit myself with one build I explained many times why. I can understand someone's taste to not do it, but not with his statement that it makes him better with game. Because until you play with it, you won't figure out how does it actually work.

Then again that "People ordering you to change build" argument. If you play the game and somebody makes you to play it differently from what you want, I doubt anything can help you at all. If you have shitty team experience, don't try to extend it to all and limit everyone in their choices to defend players from your shitty team. But if you join the team you like to play and want to get an advice how to be better and more helpful for the team, it's the only way to ask for the advice what build to play.

V-tec consisted mostly of uncompetitive players most of the time of this season lead and organised by competitive players. In the same time, causal v-tec player in my opinion was often worse than from different faction. Ability to learn from competitive players made them better, it became possible only because they wanted to learn with "min-maxed" builds instead of dying with balanced. They are still here with us, part of AoP community. Again I see how you bad team experience makes you think that everyone suffers from you problems, when it's not.

Now when I read up to the end of your post, I see how I was correct with idea of your message (:
Well, then probably I was wrong trying to defend rerolls from you, it came unexpectedly that you're not really against it. I'm really tired of destroying same and same arguments again and again THIS PAIN, ḅ̷̯̭̔̑͝ų̸͕͈̏̉̂ţ̵͍̬͊͆͝ ̸̧͙͙́͆̆y̷̢͕̹͂̎̀ŏ̸̟̲͉̿̄u̵̞̗̙͌̋̓ ̴̛͉̯̥̔͝c̷̥̳͒̍̔͜ả̷̻̫͗̌͜n̶̡̙̣̉̽͌ ̶̟͓͉̎̿͌b̸̡̬̞̏͛͌r̷̨̼̠̆̐͋ȇ̴̮̙̼̋̏á̵̻͉͊̎ͅk̴̛̤͓̪̎̕ ̸̛̲͕̝̏̒m̷̡͔̫̄͐̚e̵͚͕͍̾̽͝,̶̪̮͕́̎̀ ̷̹̫͆̋̒͜, and I will stand here to the end when it Ī̵̝̙͇̔́T̸͚͕̝̀̂͠ ̸̢̤̯̏̈́̚C̵̻̎̒̐͜ͅǪ̷͖̚̚͝ͅM̷̘̫̘̉͑͛Ẹ̵͕̠͆͊͂S̷̟̞͚̈́̔́

[mafiapl]

One argument for rerolls to stay in game.
Top 10 PVP players.

You remove reroll, make sure you create system where characters can be linked to one account.

One more thing. Min-max and being versatile, in my opinion, they aren't all that different. All comes down to weapons after all.

An example:

Versatile build with steyr.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Specific build for pancor(white), metal mk2.

Spoiler for Hiden:

The first one (versatile) is really strong and tanky.

[naossano]

Suff, you are the one that intend to impose free unlimited reroll to everyone else, not Marx.

Hellmoi. Reroll won't be removed. It will be regulated.
Same for Suff. Stop arguing like it was unlimited free reroll vs no reroll at all.
You are off-topic most of the time.

Also, stop considering reroll like a feature. It is a tool for testing purpose, not a mean to win battles. (and you know it)

[mafiapl]

I would like rerolls to remain free.
Look at it this way, if rerolls remain free, then when a squad is defeated in battle, they don't need to quit the game but simply change tactics. There comes free rerolls, they encourage people to change tactics, thus smaller chance for rage quit.

You need to find ways to encourage people to stay in game as long as possible, without too much grinding. Rerolls for 1k or 500 normal caps. You get normal caps now mostly from PVE. Dungeons and stuff like that.

[Kurwier]

learn to play with the build u have , its same like saying guns kill humans , its always humans that kill humans

imo its not x y build which makes some player a good player , or weapon x y ... in aop u have good balanced weaponclasses atm anyway so u cant say o ive tagged ew but there are no good gunz in it ... like in other fonlines. also think about what u doing before u do it , its just a natural thing , can someone lock this thread now ... free rerolls were never meant to be a feature , go read the changelog were it was introduced 4 this season...

[paragon]

> in aop u have good balanced weaponclasses atm anyway so u cant say o ive tagged ew but there are no good gunz in it

AHAHAHAHAHAHAA, so much EW users, EVERYWHERE