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Author Topic: Sneak  (Read 37683 times)

mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2014, 07:18:37 AM »

I posted this elsewhere, but it is probably my favorite solution so far, far from perfect, but still;

Categorising the weapons themselves might work out for the best (much like how armors effect sneak), light weapons could be carried in hand for no sneak minus (this could include light weapons that bring you out of stealth when fired too), medium weapons which inflict a malus to sneak when wielded in hand, and heavy weapons, which make sneak impossible when wielded in hands, and which break sneak when equipped.
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Ranger Arn

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2014, 08:11:01 AM »

IMO problem is not in sneak itself but in that players with low PE - "tank-like" builds want to see sneakers as if they had 10PE - want to see sneakers get high PE and watchtower perk. On every fo server this debate exist... you "wasting" skill points on tag skill to get profits from it and not to have "useless sneak like ability".  (and btw i dont have tagged sneak so not "whining", got FA and Doctor tag )

Really dont see the point in nerfing "sneak-assasins" becouse some good pvp players (who anyway will be OP with or without sneak cose they are just that good) are using it...

« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:15:05 AM by Ranger Arn »
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2014, 07:40:43 PM »


Really dont see the point in nerfing "sneak-assasins" becouse some good pvp players (who anyway will be OP with or without sneak cose they are just that good) are using it...



When those same players are telling you it is too strong though, you know there is a problem.
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Neuromancer

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2014, 10:03:32 PM »

-75% while holding heavy weaponry
-50% while holding two handed guns
-25% with HtH weapons and 1 handed pistols/SMGs
+/- 0% with sneak based weapons

is what i was thinking of
+1

Still I would like to see 1 handed weapons and pistols without -25% nerf since they are desneaking you after firing.
Second one: While holding heavy weapons (Avengers, Rocket Launchers, DSRs) u can sneak, but only when standing still, if u move ( even walk ) u desneak yourself, just like if u were running without silent running perk. In terms of non game mechanic I would imagine this as guy standing in shadows near a wall or hiding behind something, using envoirment or shadows as his camouflage. It would be kind of 'passive' sneaking.
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Deathproof

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2014, 12:53:33 PM »

Btw, all seem happy with this penalty on some guns.
Lets say you get -50% on two handed guns. You are usually spotted around what, 20 hex. So it means you'll be spotted at around 40 hex. And you shoot sniper from about 70-80hex. You won't change much....except some BG sneak combos.

Like some people mentioned, this whole "problem" is far from just sneaking.

BTW if its was really that OP; there would be hell a lot of more sneakers on server.
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PusiteGA

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2014, 01:57:23 PM »

Pick Watchtower perk and you will have no problem duno why is sneek problem

Nunn

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2014, 03:11:49 AM »

Watchtower seems to be missing from the Wiki, only reference i see is it needing 100 stealth.
How does it work exactly.
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paragon

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2014, 04:38:55 AM »

Gives no penalty for the angle in sneaker detection formula. Meaning you have same performance detecting sneakers in all direction.
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Hail

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2014, 05:12:19 AM »

Meaning you have same performance detecting sneakers in all direction.

Is this 100% true?
I am asking because of this post:
http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=130.msg573#msg573

Where:
Quote
Watchtower
If there was an antonym for tunnel vision, that would describe you. You detect other sneakers to your front sides just as well as if they were standing in front of you.

And in wiki about sneak:
Quote
Where Angle is given by:
front: 0
front sides: 1
back sides: 2
back: 3

I thought this perk changes formula for front sides to 0 only. Not for all sides.
Please correct me if i am wrong.
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PusiteGA

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2014, 06:54:50 AM »

as i know Watctower gives you abillity to see from front an sneeker no mater how long he is from you just if he is in your sight radius

Ranger Arn

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2014, 01:28:32 PM »

Since there are at least 3 threads about sneak its difficult to decide where to write but let it be here :

As far as i understand main issue is not with sneak skill but with sneak COMBAT. Sneak as a skill is determined to be "invisibility like" ability and that is ok imo so no reason to change angle-dettection, adding weight/volume modifiers ect. It suppose to be for more or less safe scavenging and scouting.
Better just use simple solution:
-Block attack mode in sneak mode with weapon that doesnt have "silent attack" trait.
-Add 50 ap cost to mannualy desneak/turn off stealthboy just like it is now with turning it on (50 AP cost to enter sneak)
-Lower silent death wakizashi damage.

It will mean that if you want to attack with weapon with no silent attack trait, first you will need to manually turn stealthboy off(-50AP) than attack with only 50 AP left to do anything. Basicly that resolves problem with sneak combat with non-silent attack weapons.

Please be user friendly and not "break" cool skill, like it was deformed on other fallout online servers - why copy something that is not perfect or even not good at all imo.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 01:30:45 PM by Ranger Arn »
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DeusEx

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2014, 05:33:37 PM »

i can accept some nerf with Sneak and BG sinergy... but i dont understand what a heck you are whining about small guns and sneak sinergy? just let the stealth snipers live with that DKS's already and dont force killing of whole skill with your "genius ideas"...
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Deathproof

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2014, 12:25:39 AM »

-Block attack mode in sneak mode with weapon that doesnt have "silent attack" trait.
-Add 50 ap cost to mannualy desneak/turn off stealthboy just like it is now with turning it on (50 AP cost to enter sneak)
-Lower silent death wakizashi damage.

One more nice idea.
And watchtower should be buffed in some way.
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cirn0

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2014, 01:39:52 AM »

Sneak nerf for temporary gameplay bandaid fix as follows:

-15% total sneak skill holding all 2H smallgun example: [DKS, Remmington, AK47]
-25% total sneak skill holding all BG example: [DSR, PKS]
-40% total sneak skill holding Minigun or Rocketlauncher

and 2x the malus if you're running:

The values will be balanced around a 8 PE and 200% sneak scout being able to spot a sneak 200% 10 PE BG first directly looking at each other.
The values will be balanced around a 9 PE and 200% sneak scout being able to spot a sneak 200% 10 PE SG first directly looking at each other.
 
30% total for SG 2handed
50% total for BG
Cannot run with Rocket or Minigun

This is only temporary fix until a better solution is available, I aim to nerf the OP synergies and not the sneak gameplay. DSR & PKS balance is whole different issue that will be looked into as well.

That being said, I will work on giving more tools to both sneak and anti-sneak instead of just nerfing everything.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 03:40:52 AM by cirn0 »
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Myakot

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2014, 01:58:07 AM »

I'm glad you know what you're doing ^^.
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2014, 03:13:31 AM »

Sneak nerf for temporary gameplay bandaid fix as follows:

-15% total sneak skill holding all 2H smallgun example: [DKS, Remmington, AK47]
-25% total sneak skill holding all BG example: [Minigun, DSR, Rocketlauncher, PKS]

and 2x the malus if you're running:

30% total for SG 2handed
50% total for BG

This is only temporary fix until a better solution is available, I aim to nerf the OP synergies and not the sneak gameplay.

That being said, I will work on giving more tools to both sneak and anti-sneak instead of just nerfing everything.

Yeah that's a decent bandaid, certainly not perfect, but no suggestion has been so far.

Will this only apply to the weapon currently in your hand? or to weapons in the second slot too?
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cirn0

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2014, 03:16:50 AM »

Sneak nerf for temporary gameplay bandaid fix as follows:

-15% total sneak skill holding all 2H smallgun example: [DKS, Remmington, AK47]
-25% total sneak skill holding all BG example: [Minigun, DSR, Rocketlauncher, PKS]

and 2x the malus if you're running:

30% total for SG 2handed
50% total for BG

This is only temporary fix until a better solution is available, I aim to nerf the OP synergies and not the sneak gameplay.

That being said, I will work on giving more tools to both sneak and anti-sneak instead of just nerfing everything.

Yeah that's a decent bandaid, certainly not perfect, but no suggestion has been so far.

Will this only apply to the weapon currently in your hand? or to weapons in the second slot too?

Cumulative penalty, if second slot is holding a weapon it will also add to the malus.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 03:40:08 AM by cirn0 »
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DeusEx

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2014, 03:31:33 AM »

RIP.

One question. 2x malus applies and for running and for walking in sneak or not?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 03:37:13 AM by DeusEx »
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cirn0

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2014, 03:39:40 AM »

RIP.

One question. 2x malus applies and for running and for walking in sneak or not?

Running
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #79 on: October 03, 2014, 03:52:42 AM »

Nice, as harsh as it seems I like it.
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