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[Perteks]

And what is top pvp char for you ? What the fuck are you talking about you know there is different balance than bg> all  or something

[Myakot]

And what is top pvp char for you ? What the fuck are you talking about you know there is different balance than bg> all  or something

Yes I do, where did I mentiong that something > everything else. I was talking about ZONE CONTROL ONLY, and NOTHING ELSE.
This whole thread is about it primarily.

[Perteks]

And you said HTH is useless when I know and saw that few times at ZC that HTH is equally dangerous

[Myakot]

And you said HTH is useless when I know and saw that few times at ZC that HTH is equally dangerous

Equally dangerous as who? Spear throwers? Have you seen nuka cola factory map? Library map? I'm serious, go and check those some more and show how can possibly a melee character make himself useful, even if you try to ambush someone, you always trade, since you won't be escaping, and what's the point of that? Only viable option is to spend all money on smokes or to be a sneaker (whom snipers spot from 40+ hexes)

[Nunn]

It does seem that the Zone capture fights are becoming more a matter of Grenade Spam and Snipers then anything else.

Well heavy weaponry if freaking expensive compared to sniper rifles and nade launchers, throwing isn't a viable option (for obvious reasons). Sneaking is really weak and useless in mass fights (as an attacking character, not as an info gatherer.).
HtH is completely useless until devs will implement AC (since it works only when moving, it's the bread&butter of HtH).

So eh... Energy weapons? (they are still used heavily as heck).
Everything that's viable is being used at ZC, no wonder that it is like that .

Its an issue with game design if only certain weapons are viable during a zone control, as such a solution should be found other then being content with it.

Its a shame that weapons, including heavier stuff, is so easy to find for a lot of high end and mid range players.
Would of been much nicer if heavy gear was the exception rather then the norm.

[Acidic]

Personally I dont mind any other weapon. Hell I got shot at by a .50 cal the other day. I saw him, he shot... I thought I was dead, but I had time to actually attempt to get out of the line of fire. And the ammo for that this is expensive.

But then I met a GLer and he shot, and i was on my ass... I get up run a whole 2 hexes and bam he shot and I was on my ass again bleeding out. The scoped nade launcher is actually frightening in and easy as pie to use. I ask all of you guys... go buy a nade launcher and just run into the core with 20 shots and tell me just how many kills you get. And thats not even talking about ZC where you know were the enemy is and you just have to spam nades down range... ((And with a 60 range for the scoped GL.... You are only getting out ranged by the purest of snipers... and if you are in the open getting out ranged. you are being dumb.))

[paragon]

Introducing night with lower vision range?

[Lidae]

I would have to see it for myself to be sure, but what you describe sounds problematic for sure. Some easy fixes could include reduced range, reduced damage, reduced chance for KD, higher cost for ammo and so on. I'm sure there's a balance to be found.

But like I said, I want to see it for myself too, and I'm not convinced there aren't any good counter strategy to mass milkor. It might also not be a bad thing to have a hard counter to camping inside tiny rooms with your whole group. I'd rather see both attacking and defending teams be more creative with positioning and flanking. Sometimes it just takes a while before people think of a good counter to some strategies.

As for melees being useless in ZC, I disagree. The point is that you don't have to be melee 100% of the time, just like you can easily switch the milkor to something else if the situation requires it. Melees are excellent in close quarters, and I've seen plenty of ZC take place in very close quarters already. You can also make great use of super knockbacks for example to push enemies into your own lines, it can be really effective. But of course it's all situational, you can't just rush alone with your sledge into the enemy lines, you have to be clever about it. Definitely don't think melees require a buff any time soon. We do need something to replace AC though, some ideas are in progress that we'll try out shortly.

[Myakot]

Lidae,
I remember when we ZC'ed police station, I was stationed right by a single door in a long corridor. The plan was to not let any of Lawyer's snipers get into that room (we were 2 melees).
You know what happened in that tight exit which was 1 hex long? Some guy ran it and just 1 shot-knocked-me-out with a magneto-laser pistol (I had brahmin mk2) while also dealing 110 damage. As I laid down (and the other guy also) they just swarmed in and finished us with an additional shot each. Fun thing was that farther down the corridor we had a guy with a DSR rifle, who killed every single one of them. The end.

[xXxDudexXx]

h2h definitely not useless in these fights i assure you, melee character will be built to full tank w/ psycho and quick recovery, damage resistance ( high FA maybe still testing this) and can be very effective against GL's. Also It's an AOE spread weapon so basically it comes down to not grouping together and spreading your team out in zone control, I haven't done zone control in this server but have played many versions of this game and I can assure you that position/tactics of fighting are everything in this game, if you know your enemy location/weapons they are using that knowledge is hugely important for your chance of winning, for example if you do zone control why not send out blue suit scout with high PE to watch for enemy, if he dies no big deal, but you learn where they are/weapons they are using and now you know how to fight your enemies. If you want to talk more strategy PM me.

[Myakot]

Wait a second, you haven't played any ZC on this server even once and you are talking about tactic? While also assuring me that HtH is somehow usefull in open spaces during massive fights?
All of the perks I have are defensive (toughness, double quick recovery, etc.), eating a psycho wouldn't help you in any way.
Example: Toughness and faction armour mk2 and Psycho equals shit ton of normal resistance. Guess what? DR\DT doesn't help you in any way if you get knocked out by every shot enemy makes (I have 8 END and a critical endurance perk, 9 ST and critical strength perk ha-ha...).
Today when (I believe) Lawyers went to the Library Park, I was just returning from the Core.  http://tinypic.com/r/2wf7eyx/8
1 second later that guy shoots me with a magneto-laser pistol 3 times, EACH OF THOSE SHOTS knocked me out, and the very first one broke my eyes. So eh... sorry for swearing, but fuck that.

[anonymousplayer]

About grenade launchers - they were even able to knock me back/down with 155% critical strength - what else do I have to do to counter them?

Maybe add higher tiers of robes that give a lot of explosive resistance?

[Myakot]

About grenade launchers - they were even able to knock me back/down with 155% critical strength - what else do I have to do to counter them?

Maybe add higher tiers of robes that give a lot of explosive resistance?

Knockbacks are countered by critical agility, not strength.

[cirn0]

Currently, we left in old artifacts from SDK where any explosive damage = guarantee knockdown + knockback.

We will apply the correct critical resistance checks against those effects in near future.

[paragon]

Milkor damage is like 30 per shoot ): bring it back to pvp!

[Deathproof]

Grenades can be easily dodged, they are not that easy to aim, they do not have even nearly as good range as any other sniper. Try finding tons of grenades to fire, gl with that. .

This.

And if server continues in direction to nerf anything that people started using in their tactic, we'll end up in counter strike version of fonline.