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[clochard]

-I would put life giver and nerves of steel to lvl2 (even with less +10dr it's till good, and thoose 20 hp not really that good to be a top perk)
-autonomous to lvl2 (it's a must-have for me)
-moving sneaks perk 1 lvl up each.
-i'm against "injury tolerance" it's too op, and also against "resilent" cause i don't want to see some new bleeding psycho users meta.


Also:

I will. I´ll send you a pm when its finished.

me too please, i love snow and penises, could we call them about sownises or penisnows?

[SnowCrash]

IMO the rearrangement in 3 tiers its a good idea, it will help balancing perks and design builds. For simplicity i dont see much of an issue, fallout players are used to have different lvl requirements so at least for me that is not a big deal. But it can help development and builds diversity

Venomous hands could be moved to the +12 category. in current season you can take venomous+BroF+Silent Hill Death. (Or move SHD as it was nerfed to only affect crits?)

Have ho! the effect will be negated if you have 150 or more in the throwing skill? why not make something like: you get +3(4?) ST for purposes of determining range, speed and damage (melee damage for throwing spears) for throwing weapons

[RazorRamon]

Some new perks are good

Some are completely awful jesus fucking christ what the FUCK

Informative.
Imagine if only devs made somekind of forum topic for discussion... oh wait

Imagine if only there was a googledoc posted with the perks and i commented in there already

[John Porno]

Have ho! the effect will be negated if you have 150 or more in the throwing skill? why not make something like: you get +3(4?) ST for purposes of determining range, speed and damage (melee damage for throwing spears) for throwing weapons

Heave-ho is designed for people who cant work throwing skill into their build yet want to be able to use grenades for more than just smoking yourself. It's not supposed to make dedicated grenadiers even better.

[S1mancoder]

-i'm against "injury tolerance" it's too op

Have you calculated damage reduction for hits like 50/100/200/300 to 300 HP char to check what effect this perk does?
Or simply - have you done the math before you became sure its OP?

[twat]

take out finesse? it seems useless to me. who wants to do 30 less damage? ...I love this idea. it is a perfectly legit simplification, especially since players will not be spending time on lvls 1-24, right?

[FuckYou]

take out finesse? it seems useless to me. who wants to do 30 less damage? ...I love this idea. it is a perfectly legit simplification, especially since players will not be spending time on lvls 1-24, right?

isnt finesse trait not perk?

[twat]

yes and i just thought maybe you can crit with the HP+ needles .. in which case i imagine finesse would be added cuteness.

[IIKM-enotsneknarF]

Now we have 8 perk group instead of 3, I dont think its any kind of clear or user friendly, as well as not particulary easy to make proper balance.

Well it isn't clear because nobody has ever listed requirements of what's needed for the perk, or what exactly the perk does. And I don't see these "8 perk groups" now you're just confusing me.

But if you're gonna do this 3 category thing, more isn't needed IMO.

take out finesse? it seems useless to me. who wants to do 30 less damage? ...I love this idea. it is a perfectly legit simplification, especially since players will not be spending time on lvls 1-24, right?

Since finesse is doing something carefully, instead of making targets recieve more DR, something better would be like adds 300-400 ms more aim time but your critical chance increases by 10%, something like this. And if you have simian warfare, you still have to wait that extra step.

Heave-ho is designed for people who cant work throwing skill into their build yet want to be able to use grenades for more than just smoking yourself. It's not supposed to make dedicated grenadiers even better.

But grenades without perks = don't bother taking. Of course only smoke and inc. is viable since it has none.

[twat]

it is interesting, as my build has 107 throwing and I like to carry lots of no perk grenades (grav, stun, smoke, fire). Not sure that I would use the perk in my case, as I use only tank perks. I control equip the grenades, and I used to swing the mighty toothpick +1 pancor, which was super effective. I will keep trying to use the same unconventional build(6 3 6 5 5 6 9), because I have ocd. totally agree about finesse. first good suggestion by buttalker

[clochard]

Have you calculated damage reduction for hits like 50/100/200/300 to 300 HP char to check what effect this perk does?
Or simply - have you done the math before you became sure its OP?

-math are for pussies
                  Albert Einstein

ps: i guess for a character with 300 hp wearing metal and taking a flamer shot of 200 you can remove 2/3 of 20% of thoose 200: its still  too much cause you remove a part of armor penalty (i used flamer vs metal to illustrate) and power of criticals/bypasses but remember: i'm not a man of progress.

Since finesse is doing something carefully, instead of making targets recieve more DR, something better would be like adds 300-400 ms more aim time but your critical chance increases by 10%

then you just use critical strike weapons instead of using proper crit weapons to do proper cripples, ko or weap drops.

it is not a good suggestion, the trait is good in the first place cause it is not made for damage purpuses (also critical strike is bad in the first place).


AND YES, I DONT KNOW HOW TO QUOTE PROPERLY.

[twat]

reading this is triggering my ocd. really offends my safe space. do you even AOP BRO?!?

[GaS]

Heave-ho is designed for people who cant work throwing skill into their build yet want to be able to use grenades for more than just smoking yourself. It's not supposed to make dedicated grenadiers even better.

Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

Since finesse is doing something carefully, instead of making targets recieve more DR, something better would be like adds 300-400 ms more aim time but your critical chance increases by 10%, something like this. And if you have simian warfare, you still have to wait that extra step.

I think it's good suggestion!

[John Porno]

Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

This is already partially the case, but it's an interesting idea, because usually it is the range that is preventing use of most grenades. I have never tested it with a low skill high ST char though.

[IIKM-enotsneknarF]

Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

Now this is just over complicating things, making people choose heave ho because they don't want to invest into throw skill. Converting perks into traits? No! If this were to happen, then what bonuses does someone get for investing into throw and using grenades? And then accuracy on throw skill?? So what, everyone can throw a grenade 3 hex away from them because nobody wants to invest in throw skill? I don't like the idea on range depending on STR, like what, I gotta be 10 STR + Buffout to throw a grenade it's max range? Meh

It's fine as it is IMO, wanna use grenades or concussions? Invest into throw skill, it's a freaking 2ndary skill on a server with no level cap. Better to add a trait to Smokes, Incindiearys, Stuns and Mustard gas so everyone can use. Which is literally what I mostly looted from dead V-Tecs back when server had PvP.

Heavy ho should just give grenades 10 more eff. range for anyone. Even out of the max range because it's a player investing a character perk into it, and there weren't many grenadiers in the server. If you even add it.

AND THESE NEW PERKS, WHOSE EVEN THINKING OF THEM!??



Man fucken ay, now I'll just watch my old videos, I miss Komrade saying "Fucken pajama man" and hawks random screams xd

[John Porno]

HWOD ARE YOUA KAE DIFRRENT SOR SO FPERKS WT FIS GOIGN ONWTIHR FUXCKGIN SHITCVEDCVS

Spoiler for Hiden:

S1man and me discussed this yesterday when I brought up Gas' comment and we liked his idea with focussing on accuracy, however it has to be said that what both Gas and Stalker are implying here is actually how it already is working with ST affecting your maxrange with grenades and skill the eff range aka accuracy within that range.

And stalker, you are implying theres noone who wouldnt run a 10IN build to get 200 throwing in the end, which is retarded considering the variety of playstyles. Just because you really like throwing doesnt mean everyone else has to as well, there definitely is a room for a grenade perk for non-grenadiers.

[GaS]

Converting perks into traits? No! If this were to happen, then what bonuses does someone get for investing into throw and using grenades? And then accuracy on throw skill?? So what, everyone can throw a grenade 3 hex away from them because nobody wants to invest in throw skill? I don't like the idea on range depending on STR, like what, I gotta be 10 STR + Buffout to throw a grenade it's max range? Meh

Lol Did u read my post, Mr. No? There will stimul for investing SP to throwing skill for grenadiers - ability to pick Grenadier perk and good accuracy on maximum range. But if u are just fighter with 6-8 str u can use nades succesfully with Have-ho perk on mid range. For example:
1. I'm grenadier, have 10 str+buffout, 200 throwing skill and grenadier perk, i can throwing nades on 40+hexes with 100% accuracy without delays for put it into the slot.
2. I'm commando with assault rifle. I have 6 str and Have-ho perk. I can throw one grenade fast from util slot on 20 hexes before attack.
3. I'm machinegunner with 8 str, without throwing skill and without Have-ho perk. I can throw nade on 30 hexes, but with big chance to miss with terrible consequences for my team.
Just imagine it

[IIKM-enotsneknarF]

HWOD ARE YOUA KAE DIFRRENT SOR SO FPERKS WT FIS GOIGN ONWTIHR FUXCKGIN SHITCVEDCVS

Spoiler for Hiden:

S1man and me discussed this yesterday when I brought up Gas' comment and we liked his idea with focussing on accuracy, however it has to be said that what both Gas and Stalker are implying here is actually how it already is working with ST affecting your maxrange with grenades and skill the eff range aka accuracy within that range.

And stalker, you are implying theres noone who wouldnt run a 10IN build to get 200 throwing in the end, which is retarded considering the variety of playstyles. Just because you really like throwing doesnt mean everyone else has to as well, there definitely is a room for a grenade perk for non-grenadiers.

Do you really think adding a character perk, would make people use frags, concussions, or whatever other grenade there is? nigga please, you should damn well know no one takes grenades unless they tag throw other than those I listed before. Even with this shit fuse, low radius, and high risk of missing, you still think that people are gonna use it? 

Lol Did u read my post, Mr. No? There will stimul for investing SP to throwing skill for grenadiers - ability to pick Grenadier perk and good accuracy on maximum range. But if u are just fighter with 6-8 str u can use nades succesfully with Have-ho perk on mid range. For example:
1. I'm grenadier, have 10 str+buffout, 200 throwing skill and grenadier perk, i can throwing nades on 40+hexes with 100% accuracy without delays for put it into the slot.
2. I'm commando with assault rifle. I have 6 str and Have-ho perk. I can throw one grenade fast from util slot on 20 hexes before attack.
3. I'm machinegunner with 8 str, without throwing skill and without Have-ho perk. I can throw nade on 30 hexes, but with big chance to miss with terrible consequences for my team.
Just imagine it

Sorry I cannot read on a forum's only form of communication is reading and writing. 

1 - Elaborate on no delay. Grenades have no fuse timer, no travel time? What do you mean
2 - For it to only be easily dodged? Easily seen from miles away cause this guy has no throw skill and still thinks throwing a grenade with a character perk would actually be useful?
3 - Why would you throw a grenade in a first place, only grenade you should have is smoke, you'd be an idiot to use anything other than smoke.

But theory proven! Only takes 1 guy and devs go ahead with a shit perk no one is gonna bother to use. Just like sneaks and now look at the server!  Also nice gif of V-Tec in action, it's got the blue tags and what not.

Better fucken idea, don't make it a character perk and make it a perk you can get from completely a small assignment just like silent running. There you fucken go, now everyone can be throwing shit grenades with no perks but since you change all perks to traits, looks like I won't have to tag throw anymore.

[GaS]

Sorry I cannot read on a forum's only form of communication is reading and writing. 

1 - Elaborate on no delay. Grenades have no fuse timer, no travel time? What do you mean
2 - For it to only be easily dodged? Easily seen from miles away cause this guy has no throw skill and still thinks throwing a grenade with a character perk would actually be useful?
3 - Why would you throw a grenade in a first place, only grenade you should have is smoke, you'd be an idiot to use anything other than smoke.

But theory proven! Only takes 1 guy and devs go ahead with a shit perk no one is gonna bother to use. Just like sneaks and now look at the server!  Also nice gif of V-Tec in action, it's got the blue tags and what not.

You will understand all that i mean if you just turn your brain on

Dont play the server Savior role. Just give your opinion on this issue

[S1mancoder]

Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

After some discussions with John we changed current miss algorithm abit to allow more use of higth str/low skill. So you will get no ridiculous misses for like 10 hexes at 5-10 hexes range, and overall if you arent going to trow for a precise point like window you can go even with 0% hitchance at close distances like 10-15 hexes.

And also as John noted above - throwing max range is already depentant only  on your strength, it is like that since ages.