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[mAdman]

This is a pretty big suggestion mechanics wise, but still just an idea, so go easy :p

The first and smaller part would be to make the traits or perks on the actual stealthboy item unlocked by the stealth skill, and adding some of the generic stealth weapon perks to it instead (maybe a weaker silent death at 200 for example).

Secondly and in conjunction with the first part, removing the sneak skill requirement on sneak weapons for their perks, and return it to their primary father skill, leaving the ability to sneak attack with the weapons and their sneak related and beneficial perks as their connection to the skill.

Thirdly and lastly, adding a benefit, either perk(s) or trait(s), on leather armor types (leather armors and leather jackets) which are unlocked by sneak. I thought one of (or both) the Ghost variants would fit perfectly on armor for 150 or so sneak skill, but for higher level sneaking (200) you could add a perk that reduces the armor bypass penalty when in desneak penalty on leather armor, even just the first hit for example, and a perk on jackets that halves a sneak weapons reveal time, but under a condition, like within 5 hexes of a wall etc.

Again, just ideas or considerations from a bored fellow, discuss or let them die

[cirn0]

Sneak should not be a mainline skill like you're making it out to be where its all or nothing.

It currently is all or nothing and I am not too pleased with it.

I would like Sneak to spill into anti-sneak and recon territories.

I would like to offer sneak options to BG / EW / ect.

I'm thinking of things like the stealth coat, which removes contour and player name and making your character transparent while stationary.

Perhaps listening devices to give approximate numbers of enemies in the area or direction and Jamming devices to counter that.

These are just small examples of what I want to work us towards.

[Matulaak]

Sneak should not be a mainline skill like you're making it out to be where its all or nothing.

It currently is all or nothing and I am not too pleased with it.

I would like Sneak to spill into anti-sneak and recon territories.

I would like to offer sneak options to BG / EW / ect.

I'm thinking of things like the stealth coat, which removes contour and player name and making your character transparent while stationary.

Perhaps listening devices to give approximate numbers of enemies in the area or direction and Jamming devices to counter that.

These are just small examples of what I want to work us towards.

That sounds quite simply amazing 

[Myakot]

I'm actually a little bit alarmed, BG sneaking?

Stealth coat idea won't probably work, since this change will be client-based, people will just change their files for some giant red squares to see those contours. (unless you don't add filecheck from the server-side)

[cirn0]

I will have my way. I'm a goddamn magician.

[Perteks]

delete sneak problem solved

[mAdman]

Sneak should not be a mainline skill like you're making it out to be where its all or nothing.

It currently is all or nothing and I am not too pleased with it.

I would like Sneak to spill into anti-sneak and recon territories.

I would like to offer sneak options to BG / EW / ect.

I'm thinking of things like the stealth coat, which removes contour and player name and making your character transparent while stationary.

Perhaps listening devices to give approximate numbers of enemies in the area or direction and Jamming devices to counter that.

These are just small examples of what I want to work us towards.

Thanks for the responses, I posted this before I went to bed last night, and wasn't expecting many positive responses.

Sneak definitely is "all or nothing" currently you are right but with the stacking effects of a leather jacket and ghost 1 and 2 you can reach some pretty ridiculous levels, which I think have come to be the standard (i.e. if you dont have 220-250 sneak with all of the stacking buffs, you might as well reroll because everyone will think you are shit).

The severe difference between 175 and 200 can be overcome with a leather jacket (125 skill points worth of pants right there). I think if the bonuses and maluses were reduced in severity, sneak might no be so all or nothing, in that you don't HAVE to wear a leather jacket to sneak effectively, but it helps (+10 instead of 25, and make ghost 1 +20 and ghost 2 +10, and not stacking etc, same with the maluses for weapons, reduce the severity in numbers, as -10 to a 200 point skill is a huge detriment really while -60 renders it completely useless).

I really like the idea of making specific distinctions between recon and combat sneakers, recon should have the most bonuses (and possibly have the PE minus removed), but obviously be very badly disadvantaged if they start or have combat started on them (to avoid "recon" sneakers just jankily doing combat). Combat sneaking falling into a different category, where it is nowhere near effective as recon, but the combat penalties are much less severe. Though how you would separate these distinctions I don't know (maybe wearing only light armor a stealthboy and a sneak weapon classifies you as "recon" and gives you a substantial bonus to stealth, instead of just a huge bonus from your jacket).

To counter sneaks mainline nature, the effectiveness of other secondaries could be upped, traps are almost unused by all parties, i have 193 for example, but it is mostly used for detecting npc traps, trappers should be a sneaks worst nightmare, but also perhaps linking leadership to both boosting and anti sneaking. e.g. a module that grants a bonus to sneak (or increases perception while sneaking) and a module that allows for easier spotting of sneakers on front or sides etc.

Particularly I want to suggest large area traps (3-5 hex radius) that do light, electrical damage, that not only reveals a sneak, but drains some of his stealthboy if it is active when he steps on it etc, or burns over time, in which they cannot re-sneak.

And how about a grenade type (for throwing and shooting) that is specifically made to disrupt sneakers, the explosion reveals sneakers, does a small amount of damage, and say disorients or winds.

Sorry to carry on but I do enjoy discussing this stuff, and am eager to hear more about the specific sneak and anti sneak stuff. Currently I think sneak and first aid are extremely strong compared to the other secondaries, and as suggested I think that could be evened out by making traps and leadership specifically more than just a one man job when it comes to combat.

[baskila]

delete sneak problem solved

+1

[3.14]

And how about a grenade type (for throwing and shooting) that is specifically made to disrupt sneakers, the explosion reveals sneakers, does a small amount of damage, and say disorients or winds.

The pulse grenade could do that, it has a big radius (or at least the vfx is large) but it does 16 damage to a Komrade. 

It would be logical, a emp pulse is meant to disrupt electronics.

[mAdman]

"does 16 damage to a Komrade"

Well not everyone is as much of a behemoth as komrade lol.

But yes that would work perfectly, shut the stealthboy off for 5-10 seconds sort of deal, or drain it by a certain amount.

[SnowCrash]

I like the propositions for anti-sneak and recon roles. But i will also like to have more options/strategies in the backstabbing/assassination path.

shut the stealthboy off for 5-10 seconds sort of deal, or drain it by a certain amount.

Disabling sneak for a short period will be better, draining charges will be like destroying ammo, and may cause a player to have to return to the base just to replenish.

delete sneak problem solved

Just delete your characters and you won't have to worry about it. problem solved

[Perteks]

Sadly my idea have some way to improve gameplay your is just being stupid

Sneak was always problem, game without it would be much better

[SnowCrash]

Sure! lets remove any problematic stuff to “improve” the game. Most genius suggestion ever.

As you can see devs are working on addressing a solution to problematic mechanics. You can try to help with constructive suggestions on that matter, or wait to see the what devs resolve. But removing stuff won't let devs propertly test the mechanics to address the current issues and potential solutions (remember that we are also testing a game in development)

[mAdman]

I like the propositions for anti-sneak and recon roles. But i will also like to have more options/strategies in the backstabbing/assassination path.

In regards to backstabbing or melee stealthers specifically, they should be at a very high advantage (i.e. at "recon" level sneaker) if using a stealth melee weapon especially, as they need to get in so close, but they still need to be at the disadvantage of sneak penalties when shot etc. They would likely make good recon sneakers if they had some PE to back them up, but they should definitely be some of the best sneakers, along with ranged sneak weapon sneakers.

[mAdman]

The stealth armor that cirno mentioned sounds like a cool idea, maybe that could be used to separate the recon sneakers from the combat sneakers, the suit could have great sneak bonuses (no sneak PE penalty for example too) but be more paper in theory than a leather jacket. The recon suit combined with a stealthboy would allow for the best sneak vision control in maps etc, but combat sneakers (in leather) would ruin their day if they found them.

[BG Sexpert]

I will have my way. I'm a goddamn magician.

Start with banning the tryhards that remove walls.