FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

General section => General Discussions => Topic started by: temp on May 27, 2016, 06:06:43 AM

Title: A letter to potential developer
Post by: temp on May 27, 2016, 06:06:43 AM
I'm still reading forum and has been recently triggered by "TRIGGERED: FONLINE" thread. Who locked it and why? Is AoP free of speech is only for insults and not for sharing opinion on the game state? Becoming closer and closer to true fonlines!

So I couldn't stay aside and decided to finally come back to post my opinion on AoP state from a perspective of ex-developer-tagged.

Back at my start I was playing the game from the beginning of the previous session October 2014. There were a lot of issues, bugs and stuff to work on, and it didn't feel like developers had time and priorities to fix some of them, which affected my gameplay. I felt in love with revolutionaty compared to other fonlines gameplay design, was sure that I will stay for long and decided to help out. I was ready to invest quite a lot of time and believed that I wish the same type of game as original developers. After minor fixes and with some experience of how stuff works, I was able to implement my old dream for fonlines - more efficient mouse controls. It wasn't hard, but it opened my eyes on how much more I can do to make user experience better, which was my main job through all time I was in team. I didn't interfere much with Cirn0-John plans and I actually liked them most of the time. They did mess around from time to time, used reasoning for changes as they never played the game that much, I did try to prevent some of such stuff (like armour being heavily damaged on death), but even if it didn't work out, those were minor inconveniences.

After a year I had decent in-game and developer experience and solid opinion on most of the stuff, including community. I felt like invested something important into AoP and have a right to directly effect some of development decisions. I can't disagree with Mantis about community burning itself out. Developers are those who let it happens, without enough support, basic moderation and rules and right values enforcing. I also had stable opinion on what the game should be like so I personally enjoy playing it, which is communication and teamwork, equality in access, balance and fairness were always on the first place, due to the fact I had much less time working fulltime, ease of access in a sense of amount of time required to effectively play was extremely important.

I had to fight for some of it, the most noticable part is on the forum in Open Petition for Free Rerolls thread, but rest of discussion were in developer IRC channel. I cared a lot about it, Cirn0 agreed with me. I felt like my interests are secured. I kept working on improving some parts of the game I was going to play, although couple more things bothered my at that time.

I didn't feel comfortable in the developers team of Cirn0 and John. I had quite a lot of disagreements, communication problems and hostile feelings with John. I think it's safe to say it started when he was much more senior developer compared to me, I was tring to stay away, with a time he acted only more harmful to me. Rest of occasional developers didn't really participate in game development on regular or design concepts manner. So I was communicating mostly only with Cirn0, and Cirn0 with John communication had a lot of possible decisions which I didn't participate in. I was working on a lot of out of the question stuff, that didn't even require communication with Cirn0. Cirn0 himself wasn't the one often initiating that talk and involving me into his work. I started to break away.

After some silence, Cirn0 said payed rerolls were planned. Stalker as someone directly opposite to my idea of what community should be like and getting away insulting me as developer was granted extended game access. Some other minor bullshit happened which I didn't like. I was less and less sure that game is going the way I want it be played. I wrote a PM to Cirn0 explaining my frustration and questioning my position in the developer team, and got answer that my resignation was expected. Honestly I expected more that than from him. Someone wrote "promote aop on reddit", I wrote that a lot of stuff will be untested, one of the usually non-present devs said that team members shouldn't criticize own work and as I already resigned, let's make it official. I freaked out and went emotional sending PM between all members of the team explaining situation and hoping for somebody to support me. Didn't really work out. I decided, that I said everything I could and it's time to go through.

It's been a couple of months since, I can make some conclusions. My developer experience wasn't that great, I didn't fit in team. I expected more of a collaboration, coordination and communication. I couldn't show others what and why I didn't like, couldn't involve them into experiencing game by playing it. Their plans and development direction has been left uncomprehended by me after a year and a half.

If you ever consider investing your time into AoP having similar to my mindset, learn from my mistakes.

P.S.
> So its wise to let a guy do changes to the server while claiming not to play?
What, none of developers play the game. It's how most of the things done in AoP from the start. But you still do enjoy the game, right?

Sincerely, Paragonid.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Wipe on May 27, 2016, 06:35:32 AM
What's the point of this? You tried, you worked your best, it didn't work out (assuming that isn't some bored troll). Shit happens, wasteland is harsh, and so on.
That's where this story should end, y'kno?

https://youtu.be/OC83NA5tAGE

Quote from: IRC
12:14 < V_guessWho|2> Wipe, post 9/11 was inside job there please
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Wire on May 27, 2016, 06:36:40 AM
I'll be a little offtopic here

You say
Quote
> I'm still reading forum and has been recently triggered by "TRIGGERED: FONLINE" thread. Who locked it and why? Is AoP free of speech is only for insults and not for sharing opinion on the game state? Becoming closer and closer to true fonlines!
(What?)
And then you say this
Quote
> I can't disagree with Mantis about community burning itself out. Developers are those who let it happens, without enough support, basic moderation and rules and right values enforcing.
Mister, you can't have both. (and what is wrong with you? enfocing right values? lot of good that did to USSR)
PS. TRIGGERED thread ended up in people calling each other retards, there was no meaningfull discussion continuing there, I just deleted those posts there. No idea who closed it tho.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Komrade on May 27, 2016, 06:57:43 AM
Damn nice post by paragon  :'(

He might be the one who was the closest to the idea of perfect AoP that I dream. Payed rerolls I still believe was just a troll attempt by devs and nothing serious.

That triggered thread was one of the best and more entertaining threads we had recently on the forums, I am against deleting and locking that kind of threads.

Wire USSR is best in case you didn't know.   
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: temp on May 27, 2016, 06:58:24 AM
Too detailed for troll, some of the things could be known only by involved in. Wire knew about this coming as well, can ask him.

Point is sharing of personal experience. People learn from it, you know. Story never ends when someone dies, there're others to follow.
Also some of my friends here didn't know detailed story, it will be fun to read.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Komrade on May 27, 2016, 07:07:29 AM
Payed rerolls will completely change the way AoP is if they will be implemented. Don't see a reason to do a downgrade that will help who exactly ?

Also some of my friends here didn't know detailed story, it will be fun to read.

I am sure it will be, sadly I guess I am not counted as one of your friends  :)
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: FrankenStone-MKII on May 27, 2016, 08:23:39 AM
well, i can just agree with paragon... i think major problem this hobby game got is that theres no supervisor who got the last call like da us president who can throw a veto.

theres no discussion and if there is then just between original developers and majority except mostly john and cirn0 just comming around once, or a couple times more in the year, some just when wipe is near or right after and some when they got time... but serious even if you are a bizzy man irl you can always check irc atleast or share your opinions on things... theres even irc for android systems etc out there in our century.

furthermore

even if you play all day as a dev doesnt mean that your dream of what aop should be wud be the perfect game, the only way i can see this work out getting nice is with some active dev team that plays alot by themself and discussing stuff in a propper way instead of just memecoding or just i do what i want becasue its my server and so on ...

for outsiders like me its really better to stop playing and deving whatever, atleast i dont get headaches anymore about things that arent my own.
neither i have to ask anymore for simple documentation on selfmade hacks etc.

it feels really good. this aop aint the game i enjoyed anyway so its allright, just natural progress...

if others dont care why some outsider should, let them get their things together by themself if they care like they pretend close post and pre wipe times ;) i also think thats another problem this devteam got because in my opinion most stuff gets developed right now when playerbase is already killed and you got some more time, but then history will repeat itself and some older devs might come back to change stuff which worked or just becasue they can or for whatever reason else.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Niamak on May 27, 2016, 09:56:16 AM
The forum has no rules just like irc channel. What did you expect ?
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: FrankenStone-MKII on May 27, 2016, 09:59:52 AM
whole game got no rules, just learn to read its a hobby developed game ... dis says all u need to know.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Niamak on May 27, 2016, 10:14:14 AM
whole game got no rules

Since you are talking to me, here are the game rules : http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=769.0

Enjoy reading.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on May 27, 2016, 03:18:29 PM
After some silence, Cirn0 said payed rerolls were planned. Stalker as someone directly opposite to my idea of what community should be like and getting away insulting me as developer was granted extended game access. Some other minor bullshit happened which I didn't like.

(http://i.imgur.com/fSkR1qy.png)

You're too weak to play FOnline.

Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 28, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
The way aop dev works is that cirn and me sit on irc all day and literally shitpost. We've known each other for a long enough time now where we can tell when each other is being ironic and when he's serious. Paragon was always on the channel and I made it a point not to change the way I type just because someone else is on the channel. If youre on the secret dev channel, sifting through all the shit im posting is part of the experience.

As far as paragon is concerned, he rarely ever said anything on irc and since there was so little data to go by, it was hard to tell if he was being serious or not. The clear east-european accent shining through didnt help either.

When he did quit, the "devteam" didnt realize until like 2 weeks later cause he never was participating much anyway, even when I specifically asked him for his opinion or urged him to join the shitposting.

Now to get serious, the real serious dev is actually done on mumble discussions, which paragon, or anyone else whos not an "official" dev, never took part in. It wasnt like we explicitly excluded anyone either, we just went "hey lets mumble" - "ok" and went on mumble. In fact, the very few times I was on the vtec mumble and heard paragon speaking, I got a very different vibe from him and if we ever actually went on mumble together and talked, the whole thing would have gone down differently.

To summarize it, I imagine that paragon misinterpreted things that were said on irc for various reasons, e.g. not knowing our characters, not knowing the background and context of aop dev and also just the language barrier. At the same time though, I never felt like there was much of an issue since apparently paragon didnt complain. Until he suddenly left with a statement saying how he knows exactly why and how we dev and what we're like as persons and how we think about him and to me it really was just ???????????? (https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ca8o1rl6brhhksj/Black-Guy-Meme-Question-Marks-04.png?dl=0)

Being the fatalist person I am, I guess paragon and me just weren't meant to work together, just not being on the same page or the same wavelength as we say in german, but I never had anything against him or tried to specifically piss him off. It's just that at this point, he already convinced himself that I hate him or something so there's not much I can do.


About deletion of posts and closing of threads: I'm strongly against any of that and the only time I removed posts other than spambots was when courier tried to troll my video on bursting, partly because he put a retarded image in his signature which I thought was a direct post, but of course when I noticed it he already kept trolling even more so there was no way back.

Aside from that I am strongly against political correctness and believe that anything goes on the internet. I dont know who locked the thread but if people want to make fools out of themselves by trolling each other then let them have at it. Still, it is not in my power nor my responsibility to tell those people with moderator powers how to do their "job" as the fact those people have gotten the powers in the first place expresses the trust of the rest of the team. I can only hope they use it responsibly and agree with me on this issue.

Multiposting or just spamming random gibberish to flood the forum is a different thing, but that thankfully hasnt happened yet.


As far as general dev is concerned, through the extended discussions cirn and me and the rest of the devteam had over the years, we don't need to talk every single thing through because we already know well enough how everyone thinks and where we want to go. It's just that public obviously doesnt know anything about that and can only speculate based on what we have published, which is bound to make them reach a different conclusion.

On top of that, it's only natural for every single player to have his own, subjective and unique experience of this game and his own ideas of what it should look like and his own assumptions of what the devs are up to and how games should be developed etc. It's the same thing with literally any other topic out there, music, politics, religion, whatever. People have different opinions due to different backgrounds and everyone thinks his own opinion is the superior one.

Let's take a typical example: "devs dont listen to players".
So what if we listen to guy A and implement his stuff but then guy B comes along and doesnt agree with it all and so we implement his suggestion instead which walks all over guy A's suggestions and then he's all pissed off and I guess you get the point already.

Apart from games not being a democracy in the first place, majority votes are not the most perfectest way there will ever be to handle issues as we can see every day. There are other ways of handling that like systemic consensing for example (which should be looked into by everyone reading this anyway) but such approaches also require more involvement on the part of the participants and for a project such as this, I dont see it happening. After all, we're still on the internet here.

An example I brought up on irc the other week talking with VVish about this issue, was the topic of music. Fans of bands dont expect their favorite musicians to listen to their suggestion on how to do things properly. Just because video games arent officially called art doesn't mean that they're not creative works that come to life in a similar process.

Extending upon that argument, and to adress the next popular issue of "game is free so you have no right to complain", I wonder if anyone ever thought that purchasing his favorite band's new album granted him any more rights to complain about it and suggest changes to the band. In fact, "selling out" doesn't seem to be what fans want their favorite artists to do.

Point is: The game is still in a very WIP state and will remain as such for a good while longer, until we have reached our own personal goals. Until then we can only hope that people think about our position, situation and motivation as people working on this game before drawing their conclusions and posting them publicly, because they will necessarily just be "opinions" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion) and as such will most likely be discarded. Contrary to popular belief, our goal is not to be the most played game in the history of mankind which has to be achieved by any means necessary, but any suggestions, opinions or comments using this exact pretense will automatically be invalid.

edit: im taking the liberty of moving this to general discussion section.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: RazorRamon on May 28, 2016, 01:15:43 PM
I miss how changelogs looked when paragon was on the team:

 - reworks of game mechanics to pander to forum whining (cirn0)
 - nerfs to your favorite weapon (john)
 - quality of life updates like ~freeshoot to make 20 year old shitgame less painful (paragopnik)


Logically, only nerfs and reworks remain today
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Perteks on May 28, 2016, 02:24:51 PM
TL:DR

Johny have action figure of pink hitler riding on pony
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Niamak on May 28, 2016, 02:25:36 PM
Stories about team project are definitely pretty interesting to hear even though in this case the problem seems to be the most common one which is miscommunication or lack of communication.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 28, 2016, 02:36:08 PM
Paragon made a point not to join the actual devteam. He didnt want the forum access and NNY title, he didnt want GM char, he didnt want to take part in game design decisions. Everyone went about one's business normally until suddenly drama
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Count Matthew on May 28, 2016, 05:16:14 PM
Interesting read.

I, personally am very happy to how the game is going - it's free, its fun and it's social.

Onwards and Upwards.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: FrankenStone-MKII on May 28, 2016, 08:31:35 PM
Better write books .... cyka blyad xui
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on May 28, 2016, 08:33:08 PM
Better write books .... cyka blyad xui

Go away imposter, as for I am the real Frankenstone!
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Stem Sunders on May 30, 2016, 09:14:21 AM
I closed the TRIGGERED thread. It devolved into nothing more than a shit slinging contest. No point to it. People want to share opinions on the game, and that's great. But maybe do it in a dedicated thread in an unoffensive, informative manner?

Up until now, nobody even batted an eyelid at the closure of that thread.

I'm all for freedom of speech and yes the internet will be the internet. I too have been known to shit post with the best of them. But there is no need for actual insults stemming from the butt hurt caused by sneks or whatever else might be pissing people off today.

I guess John and I disagree on this part. Moderating wasn't something I was given a great deal of training on (in place of a better word) Or even told what I am and am not supposed to moderate. So far I have just been using personal judgement. Which may be wrong from some peoples POV, but without a guide to it that's all I got.

Johns points on this issue have given me something to think about, and perhaps it may warrant a discussion on IRC for further clarification and information on how to conduct forum moderation in future.

Be passionate and give people your opinions, but if they don't agree with it don't call them a fagtard for example and expect things to get any better. It just adds fuel to the flame.
I would rather see people spending their time and energy on some actual real discussion. I don't lock threads because it offends me. (A lot of posts I personally find hilarious) I lock them because its no longer productive in any way and only serves as a place for people to try and insult each other over topics that arguably have nothing to do with the threads intention.

I We could very easily just never moderate anything. But isn't that one of Paragons points?

On one hand there would be people who say leave everything up and open, no matter its content.
On the other hand, some people would say the forum needs moderating to avoid that kind of insulting language and behaviour. 

I'm interested to know what parts Paragon refers to when he calls for moderation on forums? What actions specifically warrant moderation in his opinion.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 30, 2016, 10:16:13 AM
The problem with post deletion in my opinion is that even if youre just removing a number of racial slurs going back and forth, people don't know what exactly was related and some will use that to say that devs deleted legit opinions they didnt like and all that.

The argument that is often made on forums by its staff is that they dont want their own forum, which they feel responsible for and identify with, to be insulted by bad language being present. I guess it's partly about taking things personally, as well as being afraid that the general quality of the forum is going to degrade.

As far as I am concerned though, every poster on here is responsible for his own posts. The fonline/aop community is how it is and if this is the way they want to handle themselves then it's ok. Every time a moderator uses his powers to intervene on the forums, he shapes the community according to his own subjective views and to me, that is the same as censorship.

moderator (n.) moderator at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "ruler, governor," from Latin moderator "manager, ruler, director," literally "he who moderates," from moderatus (see moderate (adj.)). Meaning "one who acts as an umpire" is from 1560s. Fem. form moderatrix attested from 1530s.

So generally, in my opinion, moderators should only delete posts that are directly targetted at the forum as a platform, like spambots, off topic posts and multiposts that are specifically made to flood an annoy people trying to read the forum but we never really had any of that happen yet.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: temp on May 30, 2016, 10:31:57 AM
Good post, Stem, you expressed exactly what I tried to point out by lack of rules.

To answer you, in my opinion deleting useless / out of topic or inappropriate posts is fine, as well as warning and dealing with responsible users, but closing thread just because there are people doing it is not ok. Secondary, leaving no message why thread is locked is bad. But it's really just a small incident which doesn't deserve that much attention. I was going to post in that thread first and format my message according to that topic, but had to change my plans and pointed it out as a good close example of what I was talking in the post.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: FrankenStone-MKII on May 30, 2016, 10:35:03 AM
Better write books .... cyka blyad xui

Go away imposter, as for I am the real Frankenstone!

Spawn east sralker blyad

I closed the TRIGGERED thread. It devolved into nothing more than a shit slinging contest. No point to it. People want to share opinions on the game, and that's great. But maybe do it in a dedicated thread in an unoffensive, informative manner?

Up until now, nobody even batted an eyelid at the closure of that thread.

I'm all for freedom of speech and yes the internet will be the internet. I too have been known to shit post with the best of them. But there is no need for actual insults stemming from the butt hurt caused by sneks or whatever else might be pissing people off today.

I guess John and I disagree on this part. Moderating wasn't something I was given a great deal of training on (in place of a better word) Or even told what I am and am not supposed to moderate. So far I have just been using personal judgement. Which may be wrong from some peoples POV, but without a guide to it that's all I got.

Johns points on this issue have given me something to think about, and perhaps it may warrant a discussion on IRC for further clarification and information on how to conduct forum moderation in future.

Be passionate and give people your opinions, but if they don't agree with it don't call them a fagtard for example and expect things to get any better. It just adds fuel to the flame.
I would rather see people spending their time and energy on some actual real discussion. I don't lock threads because it offends me. (A lot of posts I personally find hilarious) I lock them because its no longer productive in any way and only serves as a place for people to try and insult each other over topics that arguably have nothing to do with the threads intention.

I We could very easily just never moderate anything. But isn't that one of Paragons points?

On one hand there would be people who say leave everything up and open, no matter its content.
On the other hand, some people would say the forum needs moderating to avoid that kind of insulting language and behaviour. 

I'm interested to know what parts Paragon refers to when he calls for moderation on forums? What actions specifically warrant moderation in his opinion.

go write books
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Weasel on May 30, 2016, 01:03:42 PM
Hmm well on the other hand, i personally WOULD expect you to enforce your own rules:

1. General behavior
FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix is a game, and want you all to feel comfortable when you play or read the forums. That's why we'll pay attention to make sure that spamming, insulting, flaming and trolling cases will be addressed accordingly, with warnings or bans if required. If you're not happy about something, please talk about it and give us arguments.

Oh please, if that was true RazorRamon would have long been perma banned.

4. Bug exploiting
Exploiting a bug in order to gain any advantage - the easiest example being using a broken dialogue to get infinite caps- will be punished.

That was not the case....people were ALLOWED to keep their xp and caps/gear.

5. Feature abusing
Finding a new evil plan to smash your enemies hard is usually tolerated in FOnline, as the wasteland is a place for smart and cunning people. However, we do not allow anyone to simply ruin the experience of others.

Hummm of course you do: Sneaker teams

So yeah, i guess a lot of people expected a little something called integrity, wich was thrown down the drain for some reason.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 30, 2016, 02:20:16 PM
Ah right, those rules were written by shangalar 3 years ago, I never really cared about those and they never were enforced. Just like the wiki and a lot of stuff that has been said or implemented, the design focus shifts and stuff is just left as is cause we're too lazy to clean it up.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Wire on May 30, 2016, 05:02:13 PM
Quote
The problem with post deletion in my opinion is that even if youre just removing a number of racial slurs going back and forth, people don't know what exactly was related and some will use that to say that devs deleted legit opinions they didnt like and all that.
This is why I was going to make TOXIC COMMUNITY thread and throw all the shitposts there :7

Quote
However, we do not allow anyone to simply ruin the experience of others...
...So yeah, i guess a lot of people expected a little something called integrity, wich was thrown down the drain for some reason.
Does it mean I can ban you for trolling forum and ruining my personal butterfly experience? Buzzwords sure are fun. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Weasel on May 30, 2016, 10:13:47 PM
If those rules no longer apply, then simply delete them from the forum. Dont try to make people think you care about respect and a friendly gaming environment.

@ Wire: Ban me for what? Pointing out an embarassing fact?  ::)

It's not like im insulting anyone or activelly looking trough posts to shit-talk people whenever i get the occasion. But when you see that 90% of someone's post invariably includes: ''your a retard'' ''fuck you'' and meaningless trolling without ever providing any insightfull information/opinions, why tolerate it?

And yes i know: It's Internet. But just because some people like being ignorant trolls on the internet, does not mean we all have to be. If everyone in your neighborhood started trolling and insulting everyone they met in the street, would you just go: Meh fuck it, that's the age we live in! Time to go piss off some folks!
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: 2222s1 on May 31, 2016, 12:37:45 AM
The Butthurt thickens
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Stem Sunders on May 31, 2016, 07:22:58 AM
Good post, Stem, you expressed exactly what I tried to point out by lack of rules.

To answer you, in my opinion deleting useless / out of topic or inappropriate posts is fine, as well as warning and dealing with responsible users, but closing thread just because there are people doing it is not ok. Secondary, leaving no message why thread is locked is bad. But it's really just a small incident which doesn't deserve that much attention. I was going to post in that thread first and format my message according to that topic, but had to change my plans and pointed it out as a good close example of what I was talking in the post.

So in your opinion deleting useless & off topic posts is ok, but locking a thread to stop such behaviour is not?
I agree with you about not leaving a message explaining why, that is something I should have done.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Komrade on May 31, 2016, 08:06:45 AM
Everyone who is blocking the butthurt flow will be the enemy of the state. (stem I am watching you)

Once more just in case anyone still cant get it, free rerolls is the best and most balanced feature of AoP, it is also the main reason we have currently pvp with 10+ players on each side even with the low amount of players. 
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Weasel on May 31, 2016, 11:56:43 AM
Free rerolls is one of the reason there is very little action......When you and family are not taking an hour to all reroll, someone else is. After 1 hour of taking zones with no oposition, everyone gets tired and leaves. Whenever they see they are not enough: Teams reroll to sneakers.....wich means even less chances of having ZC started and even more aimless wandering in the core in hopes of finding a strander.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 31, 2016, 12:08:16 PM
30min fam rerolls top mene
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Weasel on May 31, 2016, 12:26:55 PM
30min fam rerolls top mene

Lol, alright 30 mins then, but that's still way too long =P Takes me 10 mins to make a new char, join faction and get to 24. Then all you have to do is switch character whenever.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 31, 2016, 02:08:43 PM
People taking ages to reroll is not inherently a design issue of the reroll system. It's about people not knowing what kind of build they want, or something.

The much more favored solution is of course to level two dozen chars to maxlevel, as I did on 2238 back in the day. I Must have spent a good 100 hours on levelling there, actually. That was with the 21 levelcap and not even this level 99+ bullshit going on nowadays.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on May 31, 2016, 04:44:56 PM
1 hour for 5 min battle fam rerolls top mene




















































fixed that for you
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: RazorRamon on May 31, 2016, 05:01:23 PM
mods are sleeping, post menes










































(http://new2.fjcdn.com/pictures/Ebin_69d317_5389452.jpg)
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: John Porno on May 31, 2016, 06:00:41 PM
^b& 4 menes
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Vassal on May 31, 2016, 10:46:53 PM
the server is dead. it isn't not necessary to anybody any more

six developers couldn't make the normal server. your award online of 30 people

shame
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Perteks on June 01, 2016, 12:30:12 AM
Then stop posting on dead server forum, get a grip moron
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: twat on December 13, 2016, 11:22:55 PM
jihad
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Smalltime on December 17, 2016, 09:01:59 AM
How bad is it that I'm just now seeing this thread
Also, I've always been a fan of paid (ingame) rerolls. Not a ridiculous amount, 100 caps or so, for the sole purpose of draining caps. Scarcity of currency makes it more valuable, and these games have always been about the struggle for me. When I have a base full of everything I could ever want, I get lazy and lose a reason to play. I'm still amazed a small respec fee was ever such a debate, what other huge in-game services come free? It costs money to even switch rooms and buy bases.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Teela on December 17, 2016, 10:45:57 AM
How bad is it that I'm just now seeing this thread
Also, I've always been a fan of paid (ingame) rerolls. Not a ridiculous amount, 100 caps or so, for the sole purpose of draining caps. Scarcity of currency makes it more valuable, and these games have always been about the struggle for me. When I have a base full of everything I could ever want, I get lazy and lose a reason to play. I'm still amazed a small respec fee was ever such a debate, what other huge in-game services come free? It costs money to even switch rooms and buy bases.

Be careful Smalltime, or you might awake the PARAGON.....
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Stem Sunders on December 18, 2016, 01:24:23 AM
Paragone

(http://i.imgur.com/1vuJYAy.gif)
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Komrade on December 21, 2016, 05:28:50 PM
Yeah at some points there were actually devs ... but we scared them away.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 21, 2016, 05:52:18 PM
How bad is it that I'm just now seeing this thread
Also, I've always been a fan of paid (ingame) rerolls. Not a ridiculous amount, 100 caps or so, for the sole purpose of draining caps. Scarcity of currency makes it more valuable, and these games have always been about the struggle for me. When I have a base full of everything I could ever want, I get lazy and lose a reason to play. I'm still amazed a small respec fee was ever such a debate, what other huge in-game services come free? It costs money to even switch rooms and buy bases.

So bad there's not even those skirmishes between V-Tecs and Family had last session....it's just D.E.D
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: antohha on December 24, 2016, 08:19:22 PM
I feel your pain suff. I will miss ya bro...
Wish you good luck in the future projects. ;)

Edit: I think it was not smart exchange - suff for stalker ;D
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 24, 2016, 10:55:48 PM
I feel your pain suff. I will miss ya bro...
Wish you good luck in the future projects. ;)

Edit: I think it was not smart exchange - suff for stalker ;D

I can be like suff though, just let me block every enemy of mine from every type of communication, get butthurt x100 and have a douchebag haircut from the 00's.

Oh, and play with swarm, so looks like I gotta join hounds...if only server were alive :D
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Teela on December 27, 2016, 03:56:54 PM
you just gotta work a bit on the actually doing stuff part. go fix wiki.
oh wait....
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Niamak on December 27, 2016, 05:26:31 PM
 SH| Suff: Could you possibly send a message to my aop fans in the "Letter to the potential developer" thread for me please? I can not register on the forum, it asks me a quetions "What is the best in life" or something, I googled it still I have no fucking idea

SH| Suff: My steam is paragonid, and I'm playing helldrivers now. 9/10, game of the year, it's worth it, join meeeeee. - Suff
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: FuckYou on December 29, 2016, 12:40:13 PM
I miss suff.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: SnowCrash on December 29, 2016, 01:13:16 PM
it asks me a quetions "What is the best in life" or something, I googled it still I have no fucking idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

Those noobs...
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: clochard on December 29, 2016, 02:12:59 PM
it asks me a quetions "What is the best in life" or something, I googled it still I have no fucking idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

Those noobs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4u_QCfG5YU

fixing economy lessons by conan himself.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Smalltime on February 11, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
woops I accidentally clicked the aop forums bookmark again and then missed the "x" before it loaded

I was just watching that movie last night, actually
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: naossano on February 11, 2017, 10:25:08 PM
I can't believe you are still bitching about paid rerolls...
It was never meant to remain forever free.

Also, i would put even less trust in a developer that is playing too much the game, is too much involved in factional and overall server powerplay and made himself too many enemies. The risk is way to great that he would make his own playstyle the most powerfull and that he would nerf the playstyle of his enemies, just because it can be effective agains't him. Not saying it would always be the case, but there is the best way to raise suspicions up to the sky. And if the dev should have some bit of *player experience*, to help him balance the game, he should first and foremost spend time actually developing the game, and watching battles with dev POV (which regular players cannot do), AND read the feedback from the community. Let's remember that on those work-in-progress servers, the players main job is not to merely play the game, but also act as a beta-tester, and provide feedback to the developpers specifically so that they spend less time on testing and more time on developing. We are the one playing and testing for them so they can allocate time on things only them can do. If they were spending their time testing the game themselves, they wouldn't need a playerbase at all and would keep the server closed until they would consider it as final and worthy to release. But it would take a long time as they would be too busy playing it that they wouldn't have much time to actually make it.
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Kurwier on February 12, 2017, 01:47:18 AM
my honest opinion
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6c/f4/b3/6cf4b3e93caef896b27dd9140f7171a5.jpg)
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Smalltime on February 12, 2017, 07:22:41 AM
trust that even when all else is quiet, no one is saying much, and no one is playing
that cirn0 will always be working on some strange idea he had and john will be unbalancing guns while nerfing spears
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: FuckYou on February 12, 2017, 07:40:29 AM
trust that even when all else is quiet, no one is saying much, and no one is playing
that cirn0 will always be working on some strange idea he had and john will be unbalancing guns while nerfing spears

fucking whole balance is s1man duty now
pornoman is just meme deliverer
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Kurwier on February 12, 2017, 08:35:16 AM
and we got new useless GM in replacement for other useless GM smalltime already also...
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sga0nuhohxwhcnf/avatar_102_1478394988.png)

Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Stem Sunders on February 12, 2017, 03:14:55 PM
and we got new useless GM in replacement for other useless GM smalltime already also...
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sga0nuhohxwhcnf/avatar_102_1478394988.png)

Smalltime was better

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sga0nuhohxwhcnf/avatar_102_1478394988.png)
Title: Re: A letter to potential developer
Post by: Kurwier on February 12, 2017, 03:36:57 PM
and we got new useless GM in replacement for other useless GM smalltime already also...
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sga0nuhohxwhcnf/avatar_102_1478394988.png)

Smalltime was better

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sga0nuhohxwhcnf/avatar_102_1478394988.png)
you good boi stem <3