FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => Suggestions => Topic started by: Einstein on November 27, 2014, 09:56:04 PM

Title: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Einstein on November 27, 2014, 09:56:04 PM

Hello everyone!
I was thinking a couple of suggestions:

First, I think the grenade stunt should have effects for a longer period of time (just a little more), and given granda allegedly reperesenta (in fact this could apply to all) would be very interesting that one of the effects was that every character in the blast lose all or part of its AP.

Secondly, I want to ask the developers if they plan to include new explosives (C4, trapbombs or similar), and more traps styles (like put one of those c4 on a closed door). Not that I'm complaining traps there now, excellent work, but it would be wonderful if a specialized trap character can have more tools to plan strategies.

As always, long live AOP and its creators !!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Stem Sunders on November 28, 2014, 12:16:55 AM

Quote from: cirn0 on October 23, 2014, 10:35:43 AM

I have an affinity towards traps and it will be receiving features in the near future.

I hope so too, my traps skill is going pretty much to waste right now :D


I have a few, small suggestions to add on the traps, if I may...

1)Mine+Shovel=Buried mine?
   Making it even harder to detect, Perhaps giving a tiny bit more strategy/kit to a trapper?
   Afaik, there is 0 use for a shovel at all, so there is also that.
   Would that be hard to do?

2)And how about adding an optional detonator with that C4!
   To rig ambushes and the like.
   Maybe too op?

3)Spike pit? Anyone?...That would be cool right? 
   Again giving a use to an otherwise useless shovel
   and an extra use to sharpened sticks.
   Only as a one use sorta thing, maybe 2 hex's wide.
   I might be the only person that uses them but still  :P

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Anza on November 28, 2014, 04:08:44 AM

I think traps are correct atm, but need to be easier to gather/collect/craft. Crippling and dam are ok imo, in Reloaded some TC became C4 fest and I don't want that here :)

Making stun grenades make targets lose AP is a nice idea but only if a immunity cd could be implemented, because it would be so easy to stun lock a targets otherwise :)

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: 3.14 on November 28, 2014, 05:17:45 AM

A stun lock with stun grenades won't be possible. It takes too much time to find a nade in your backpack, drag and drop it to a inventory slot and wait for the AP to regenerate (because equipping also cost AP).

My opinion on grenades:
-frag grenade explosion delay is too big, even with 200 throwing everyone can just walk out of the explosion radius
-never seen a concussion grenade cripple a limb (but that may be my luck there)
-plasma grenade has no 'status effect' it would be nice if it exploded faster at least
-pulse grenade - no use at all
-incendiary grenade - these are good, even too good at times, NPC should learn to walk out of the fire ;)

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Einstein on November 28, 2014, 05:31:38 AM

Quote from: Stem Sunders on November 28, 2014, 12:16:55 AM

Quote from: cirn0 on October 23, 2014, 10:35:43 AM

I have an affinity towards traps and it will be receiving features in the near future.

2)And how about adding an optional detonator with that C4!
   To rig ambushes and the like.
   Maybe too op?

The c4 detonator is a good idea, yes man!

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Einstein on November 28, 2014, 05:42:30 AM

I have not seen a concussion grenade bodies break somewhere, and not even a frag grenade.
I agree with the time of frag grenade to explode should be reduced so that it looks a little closer to real life.

I do not think it is due to be innocent in relation to the effects of the grenades ... maybe be less affected, but a grenade falls right beside you must suffer effects.

I think what's interesting is that once grenades thrown must find one in your inventory, and in a battle rarely do. The grenades are a single use item and as such objects should be improved.

3.14: The press grenades makes electrical damage, wear metal armor and check it;)

In short, should reduce trip times and change some other effects to make it look more to the real.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: paragon on November 28, 2014, 06:20:35 AM

Grenade is not 1v1 PvP tool. Use OP spears which are better than most of the guns in small scale pvp.

While there were many organized players (~15 from both sides) in ZC and straight line of sight meant you gonna die in several seconds, grenades were used widely. The only concern about it: overprice. But I've never seemed to run out of them, so even this could be not true.

I've seen dozen of times people staying in grenade blast radius until it explodes... explodes twice.

Gameplay over realism please.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Stem Sunders on November 28, 2014, 09:34:27 AM

Quote from: Anza on November 28, 2014, 04:08:44 AM

Reloaded some TC became C4 fest and I don't want that here :)

Totally agree, buuut...

What if there could be only one active set of C4 (Per player) in the core at any one time.
Or having that same set of C4 bound to a detonator, which cannot be set again until you have used it to blow up your first block of C4. Or could even go so far to have the detonator destroyed/broken/out of battery after 1 use. (Which could possibly only be recharged/fixed by an npc?)
That way it could still be used to set ambushes/rig doors w.e
But only being able to use 1 at a time.

Realistic? mmm, no. But it would stop people placing them on every corner/door they pass.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: paragon on November 28, 2014, 10:18:58 AM

There are different ways to introduce effective traps without overkill.
What's for different server is dead, for AoP is gold.

E.g. making it very rare loot (like machete or even more rare), something like T3. It doesn't mean to kill player instantly or anything, but this way you may insure that 1: there are explosives 2: it's not main weapon.
Ability to spot such stuff is required as well. Metal/explosives detectors of different kind + traps skill. And ability to destroy enemy explosives remotely if detected.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Stem Sunders on November 28, 2014, 10:26:31 AM

@Pargagon

I 100% agree, I wasnt saying any of the things I mentioned should be megaoverkillbyebye powerful, especially not killing in 1 shot.
Yes to such things being rare and uncraftable like the machete.
And as for it being a main weapon, of course not.
They should be specialty items, hard to find and requires the skill to use.

I don't know how destroying enemy explosives remotely would work (Maybe place your own explosive next to it and detonate from a distance with your own hand held detonator)

Your idea of a metal detector being used in conjunction with traps skill makes my mouth water. :P meh want metal detectors.
Could metal detectors also be used in conjunction with scrounger perk too? :D Finding odd trinkets and bottle caps buried by the sands of time.

Lastly I don't know enough about nades to comment, I give most of mine away to throwers.
Only using them occasionally.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Niamak on November 28, 2014, 10:40:46 AM

How about traps having more than 1 hex next to each other restriction ? like 5 hex minimum between each traps.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on November 28, 2014, 03:00:28 PM

Quote from: Niamak on November 28, 2014, 10:40:46 AM

How about traps having more than 1 hex next to each other restriction ? like 5 hex minimum between each traps.

traps already OP, especially land mines with 200%

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: nailbrain on November 28, 2014, 03:40:57 PM

my honest opinion about nades is dat they must have no or very reduced delay and fixed blast radius ,also the lack of range indicator when  used in quick is pretty bad (maybe when u press quick action buton  a circle of color to apper to indicate range)

p.s stating spears are op is pure bullshit , dmg is high but hiting actualy someone is hard
travel time even on maxed char is way slower than npc , u hit anything in the way to the target , god forbid your targed moves one hex sideway , they are heavy and ap hungry
try fkn use them then say it is OP

 

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: cirn0 on November 28, 2014, 05:05:47 PM

Ah, might as well drop some spoilers.

Here's what I've been working on regarding to traps / explosives.

I've been experimenting with dynamic wall destruction. It can happen but the hurdle I have ATM is the graphics. What I have done so far is simply the removal of the blocking tile which looks horrible.  blown out walls are actually 3 different sprites: 2 sides of the wall and the impact area. This means each wall tileset has to have their own graphics if I want to do this nicely. I will probably not support all walls being destructible but I instead of saying I was lazy, we can say that certain walls are harder.

This also ties in with dynamic walls I've also been toying with... that's another story though.

The other thing I wanted to do was IED's that will be created by using traps on excess ammunition. Basic create cheap traps ( or the base crafting materials ) out of all that excess ammo.

I've also been working with the idea of chaining explosives such that you have the explosive payloads which require a triggering mechanism to detonate. For example: you line a whole road with explosive charges and then 1 triggering device such as a trip wire which will trigger the first explosive charge that will cause a chain reaction of explosion. This sure sounds fun but probably really annoying to play against :), so this is something that needs to be balanced for fun.

I will probably split the trap design into two categories:

Combat explosives, for wall / door destruction, easy to pull off and viable to use during combat situations
and
Defensive Traps, which involve a huge setup time and generally only viable once ( probably the next best griefing tool next to sneak waki ).

As for grenades, I've had this chaff grenade added for awhile that has a huge AOE radius which will be used to catch sneaks. Tear Gas, which is just a variant of mustard gas that will disorient everyone in it instead of poison. The plasma grenade needs help. Also debating if I should let you throw nades while running as a free action.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Einstein on November 28, 2014, 05:20:28 PM

wow.... !!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Myakot on November 29, 2014, 01:07:30 AM

"This also ties in with dynamic walls I've also been toying with... that's another story though."
Does it have some relation to "maze dungeons" we were talking about like 1 month+ earlier? ;D
"Tear Gas, which is just a variant of mustard gas that will disorient everyone in it instead of poison."
Would be fun if it could apply crippled eye state for a period of time. Though I doubt that FO engine supports such thing.
"The plasma grenade needs help"
Just make it a molotov variation, but with plasma damage instead of fire. (radioactive pool is a nice model for that).
"Also debating if I should let you throw nades while running as a free action."
I doubt that this is ok ;DD, or at least with a penalty for max range. Because otherwise (to make it superb), you'll have to add nade physics ^^

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDK09mKjG2U&list=PLHF999pjo89OKE2X_sudbAqQonX6Kz_BI&index=13)

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: paragon on November 29, 2014, 04:00:31 AM

"Would be fun if it could apply crippled eye state for a period of time. Though I doubt that FO engine supports such thing."

You don't need an engine support for such straight-forward thing.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Myakot on November 29, 2014, 04:04:23 AM

"You don't need an engine support for such straight-forward thing."
For a LIMITED amount of time? It means that that eye is supposed to auto-heal 3-5 seconds after effect was applied.
And if those effects (actually crippling an eye and throwing a nade) can't be accounted as different ones, people will abuse those nades to heal their limbs. (i.e. some1 shot you in the eye, you throw a nade at yourself, and after 3-5 seconds that cripple should heal).

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: paragon on November 29, 2014, 04:12:06 AM

Yes, there is no native tool to do a temporal crippling AFAIN.
But you don't need native tools for anything which state could be easily changed and stored.
For example if you got hit by such grenade you can apply cripple, run timer which will trigger event after some time which will heal crippled limb (which one is stored in critter).

But there is disoriented effect already for such cases?

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: blulark on November 29, 2014, 07:04:10 AM

Give us ability to remove bear trap from our foot.

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: nailbrain on November 29, 2014, 02:05:40 PM

extras and speshul shit and so much more is.... good, BUT only thing dat is NEEDED are afordable traps

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Einstein on December 01, 2014, 05:00:07 PM

Hey! And what about make the traps skill - damage dependient?, I mean, when more trap skilled, more damage do your traps over the minium that normally would do. Something like u are so skilled that the mines explodes better and the beartraps are harder when closing

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: SnowCrash on December 01, 2014, 05:06:23 PM

Quote from: Einstein on December 01, 2014, 05:00:07 PM

Hey! And what about make the traps skill - damage dependient?

Its already working like that
http://fonline-aop.net/wiki/index.php?title=Traps

Title: Re: GRENADES AND TRAPS FOR FUN
Post by: Einstein on December 01, 2014, 08:21:25 PM

I think we can say the wiki is not a very actual font of info. Its talk about traps that doesnt exists too...

Meaby a dev can confirm if at more skill more damage really, and if is possible i like to know the formula to calculate the damage per skill