FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => Bug reports => Topic started by: 3.14 on October 14, 2014, 01:46:45 PM

Title: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 14, 2014, 01:46:45 PM
I know that the bug when grenades used from the utility slot get unequipped was reported twice or more, but the same happens when using them from the weapon slot :'(
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: cirn0 on October 19, 2014, 03:16:13 AM
I don't have the heart to tell you
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Perteks on October 19, 2014, 03:40:20 AM
Poor cirno he don't have heart

Lets make charity auction for new heart for cirno
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Smalltime on October 19, 2014, 04:43:12 AM
I'll do it.
It's not a bug.

Grenades in AoP are much more situational than in other FOnlines. They aren't really meant to be used as your main weapons, they are meant to be supplemental to combat. That is why the utility slot was created, actually, so that you could throw a grenade without compromising your main slots, and so you don't have to spend the time switching to it from your weapon.
Hit E, toss your potato, and get tactical.

If you want to use incend/smokes in rapid succession, I recommend the grenade pistol.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 19, 2014, 12:22:16 PM
That sux, bad design ;(
Why not just make them use 100 ap?
Or make them non-stacking (I could then put one in each slot) ?

They cost a lot, have low range, do ~30 dmg, you need good (?) str to use them and 200 points in a support skill (but no weapon perks for that), from time to time fly 20 hex of aim, they blow after a delay and you can use only one.
Limits like they  where tactical mini nukes, but you can't even kill a dog with 'em.

And then there's the Incinerator, Milkor, Grenade Pistol ( and Plasma Cannon, and Rocket Luncher- but these have their sweet cost) that do the same task as grenades only cheaper, better, further.

A plasma grenade will do ~60dmg (or less) to anyone in Metal or Combat armor, would it realy break the game if I could use two of em in a row?
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: mAdman on October 19, 2014, 12:29:39 PM
would it realy break the game if I could use two of em in a row?

Maybe not but imaging 10 people throwing 2-3 at a time >.>

Could get quite nasty quite fast.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Myakot on October 19, 2014, 12:32:22 PM
@3.14

Grenades have no delay with 200 throwing, besides they are not about doing damage. Stun nade for an example has an astonishing aoe and de-buff length with 200 thr.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: paragon on October 19, 2014, 12:47:16 PM
they are not that weak as you say.
although design is really not very comfortable.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 19, 2014, 12:51:07 PM
Wouldn't 10 people shooting Milkor at once be just as bad?

And if nades are not about damage then what about plasma?

I am handicapped, drag-and-drop is painful for me   and I'm a step away from writing a script that will re-equip grenades. Don't make me do that.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: mAdman on October 19, 2014, 12:59:21 PM
True.

Surprised I haven't seen that used as a strategy yet.

Milkor swaaaarm!
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Deathproof on October 19, 2014, 01:16:58 PM
Wouldn't 10 people shooting Milkor at once be just as bad?

And if nades are not about damage then what about plasma?

I am handicapped, drag-and-drop is painful for me   and I'm a step away from writing a script that will re-equip grenades. Don't make me do that.

Do eeeet
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Smalltime on October 19, 2014, 02:41:34 PM
That sux, bad design ;(

"I don't like it, that means it is bad design."

Also, your build isn't nerfed, use spears. With 200 throwing they are like lasers.
Grenades simply aren't intended to be used as your main weapon in AoP.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: John Porno on October 19, 2014, 02:50:27 PM
That sux, bad design ;(
Why not just make them use 100 ap?
Or make them non-stacking (I could then put one in each slot) ?

They cost a lot, have low range, do ~30 dmg, you need good (?) str to use them and 200 points in a support skill (but no weapon perks for that), from time to time fly 20 hex of aim, they blow after a delay and you can use only one.
Limits like they  where tactical mini nukes, but you can't even kill a dog with 'em.

And then there's the Incinerator, Milkor, Grenade Pistol ( and Plasma Cannon, and Rocket Luncher- but these have their sweet cost) that do the same task as grenades only cheaper, better, further.

A plasma grenade will do ~60dmg (or less) to anyone in Metal or Combat armor, would it realy break the game if I could use two of em in a row?
The point is that the util slot and the de-equiping enables us to put the ap cost to smth like 20 since the alternative, as you said, would be to set it to 100ap. The whole point is though taht you can quickly throw a grenade and without even having to switch to another slot, you have 80ap free to spend on doing other actions, enabling you to come up wiht useful combinations.

And this is why you first think before blaming the design.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 19, 2014, 03:25:58 PM
If the idea was that grenades are to be used once per ... I don't know how long... then they should have a cooldown or high AP cost. I don't like this idea, true. But I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Maybe one should use just one of them per fight? Who am I to tell?

But adding a 'pin the tail on the ass' gui minigame of finding them nades in the inventory to stop grenade showers IS bad design. And even more so when other,  similar weapons don't have this feature. To make it fair reloading other weapons should work by dragging bullets in the inventory one by one - nobody (sane) would want that! 

If nothing will change then it would be nice to have this listed as an official feature on the wiki so that stupid blond people (Yours Truly) don't mistake it for a bug again ;)

EDIT:
Sorry, didn't read John Porno post before posting.

The topic is about using grenades from the weapon slot. Couldn't the grenade stay in hand when using it from the weapon slot? You can even add+50AP cost to counter the re-equip cost. Wouldn't this be a better design then gui-kung-fu?
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Myakot on October 19, 2014, 03:38:36 PM
There's not need to get so defensive ><.
(http://i.imgur.com/hoOrUsh.jpg)

Just remember than you are never standing out in the open for pvp, you almost always have a shit ton of time to take cover and re-arrange your gear, so what's the problem?
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 19, 2014, 04:09:19 PM
I'm cool, not mad, it just look that way.
**hides her pitchfor and burning torches, calls off the mob**

The pvp I'm in are:
A) 1 or 2 enemies running away and me with a hammer (or of late a cow-prod) running after them.
B) walking into a 10+ swarm (because my toon is half-blind)

There is no time for inventory magic.

In scenario A a frag will push the enemy away and if not ~30-40 dmg + bleed is not enough to make them stop to FA/DOC. One plasma nade is also to low on dmg. Fire nade? I'll run into it-bad. I will try flashbang - didn't have a chance to try that. If I stop to 'reload' I will never find them again (because my toon is half-blind)

In scenario B -nothing I can throw will make a difference.  2x frag would make some of them stop for a moment giving my team a  chance to fight or flee even if I die.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Smalltime on October 19, 2014, 04:13:42 PM

Frags give a tremendous amount of bleed. Two in succession would render everyone hit useless, as they try to fix themselves. If you're trying to stop ten guys from following you, you're best off either smoking, or tossing an incendiary behind you, and just running.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Myakot on October 19, 2014, 09:50:19 PM
@3.14
Just throw a freaking stun nade o_0. It applies winded, that's why I say that damage is not a primary stat for a nade.

Whelp, if you run into a swarm of 10+ people even a nade buff won't help you much, that situation is not related to the topic at all. (use a smoke, pop a voodoo?)
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: paragon on October 20, 2014, 01:36:24 AM
It applies winded, which applies +10 DR xD
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Smalltime on October 20, 2014, 01:49:09 AM
It applies winded, which applies +10 DR xD
but more importantly, forced walk.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 20, 2014, 01:51:11 AM
Right. It was stupid of me to try using grenades as a weapon.
And swarms should always win, it's a MULTIplayer game after all.

Anyway, I know now it's not a bug, so EOT.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Myakot on October 20, 2014, 01:55:24 AM
Right. It was stupid of me to try using grenades as a weapon.
And swarms should always win, it's a MULTIplayer game after all.
Okay, so you suggest to buff grenades to the point where you may win 1v10? What the heck is wrong with you.
Of couse swarms will always win you 1v10, not so frequently 10v100 (visit tla2 for a change and try to capture phoenix with whatever swarm you can manage.)

P.S.
And, yes, grenades were never used as a "primary weapon" their sole existance is to be a support item, in every single game. (either to buff\debuff or to blow up cover)
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Smalltime on October 20, 2014, 03:17:27 AM
P.S.
And, yes, grenades were never used as a "primary weapon" their sole existance is to be a support item, in every single game. (either to buff\debuff or to blow up cover)

In other FOnlines (particularly TLAmk2) you could use grenades as a main weapon (especially plasma.)
I seem to remember sneak plasma naders being a problem for a short while in 2238 as well.
So I can see where the misconception comes from, but I think we need a large disclaimer that reads "THIS IS NOT YOUR DADDY'S FONLINE."
War may never change, but grenades have.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Myakot on October 20, 2014, 03:23:40 AM
Quote
In other FOnlines (particularly TLAmk2) you could use grenades as a main weapon (especially plasma.)
Yeah now that I think of it, there was such a specialised sneak-thrower, what I meant by "games" were games in usual, not FO's only.
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: Perteks on October 20, 2014, 10:14:49 AM
Stick this topic
Title: Re: [ITEM][MECH]Grenades unequip after throw
Post by: 3.14 on October 20, 2014, 10:17:59 AM
Whoa people! Calm down!
I admit I was wrong, no irony this time.

In every weapon group (well 'item' group -nades are not weapons) there are useless, npc weapons (10mm pistol, punch gun to name a few) the same is true for grenades and that's okay.   

I misstook this feature for a bug -end of story.