FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix
Game improvements => Suggestions => Topic started by: mAdman on October 10, 2014, 12:21:11 AM
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The armor perk sprinter gives more move speed for AP missing, while this is a cool mechanic, in combination with bloodthirst (as after hitting someone and killing them usually leaves you with little to no AP) and voodoo, it is scary to see how fast someone can fly across the map.
Inverting the mechanic to grant more move speed while on higher to full AP might calm the snowballing effect that all of these effects in combination have, but also make wearing light armors more effectively increase movement in general. (Also it would remove any need to "flush" your AP to boost movement speed, by equipping and removing a weapon etc, and not put people with a slower AP+ regen at an advantage to those with faster rates).
I also believe that leather armor should have a similar movement speed increasing effect (less so than jackets) and that metal and heavier should have an inherent malus to move speed, but that could be an entirely different discussion in itself.
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But why ? ::) does leather jacket and leather armor need a buff ? metal armor nerf ?
Sprinter at full AP would make sneaker pretty strong.
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Sprinter is kind of weird that it even buffs 1agi builds. Will need to rework this.
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Yeah, a 1 AG character with bruiser can stay at full speed much longer than a high AG character by dumping his AP.
Would inverting the mechanic work to the effect you intended? It would certainly advantage high AP regen+ builds more.
As for why they need a buff or debuff, it is not so much about buffing, but giving each strengths and weaknesses that are balanced and make at least a little sense.
Making people metal armor move slightly slower, though would be an added malus, and metal armor would need to be compensated a little to balance, say with a buff to DT, but like I said that is a whole nother discussion, and I'm not sure that is the path they want to go here.
Maybe you could use a different inversion of sprinter for metal armor, where a player moves SLOWER for the more AP he is missing, so running and gunning in metal armor becomes more difficult and people with slow AP regen+ are actually punished instead of rewarded.
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while it doesnt make sense from a realism standpoint, any leather jacket/coat character really needs the bonus movespeed to get away after spending their action points, its the weakest set of armors and has paper wall after all
and if it gave a bonus with full AP everyone would carry a spare 160 caps leather jacket at all times to travel faster
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Well, unequipping and reequipping armor in combat seems excessive and is a waste of AP really, but I can see what you mean, that could be avoided by adding the effect to Combat Jacket and above though (as the 4th armor trait), making it a much more expensive move speed increase. Or you could bump up the cost of taking off and equipping armor to 150 AP each, to make combat armor switching impossible without plenty of time (which is fine in my books).
Don't get me wrong I believe leather jackets and even leather armor too should boost movement, but it just seems this mechanic has some flaws.
Perhaps a movement boost similar to bloodthirst could be added, that instead grants movement speed based off damage dealt, but only for 5 seconds or so, so that one's AP regen+ only effects this in a positive way, and shenanigans like dumping AP won't have a positive effect.
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What about making it gives speed based on the health lost (like adrenaline rush), will still be useful for hit and run tactics and wont be an abusable mechanic
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Everything is fine, leave as is.
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Everything is fine, leave as is.
What's fine, sprinter perk is not used.
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Sprinter perk is used but AG is not. :-[
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Sprinter perk is used but AG is not. :-[
I mean that it's not being utilized properly. It's like: "Oh, why the heck do I run faster? Oh, I've forgotten I have a sprinter perk".
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Everything is fine, leave as is.
So 1ag characters with bruiser get hugely rewarded by sprinter over high ag characters with action boy type perks. And doing things like equipping and reequipping a weapon can boost you to the full movement bonus without having fired a shot.
But it's ok 'cos everything is fine, and I shouldn't bother to report potential exploits? OK, NPs. Sorry for wasting all of your time.
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how is this a potential fucking exploit?
you catch someone running with 0 AP and PAPERWALL and he still beats you you should immediately ~deleteself
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Look. Before I rerolled, I had 1 ag and bruiser. I now have 3 ag and bruiser, but it is much the same. In some situations I fire 2-3 shots and run, run so fast nobody can catch me, sometimes while stealthed, for overextended periods of time because of my terrible ap regen+. If you think knockdowns are a problem for me, you would be wrong.
This seems unfair to me.
And the idea of using some silly inventory trick or AP dumping technique to stay at full movespeed is being used, and doesn't seem like proper in game meta management.
You don't agree?
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Look. Before I rerolled, I had 1 ag and bruiser. I now have 3 ag and bruiser, but it is much the same. In some situations I fire 2-3 shots and run, run so fast nobody can catch me, sometimes while stealthed, for overextended periods of time because of my terrible ap regen+. If you think knockdowns are a problem for me, you would be wrong.
This seems unfair to me.
You make it seem like having 1AG has no downsides.
You got 35% critical agility with 1 AG. Only 25% with Paperwall.
Maybe all you've been fighting are people too dumb to aim for the head on leather jacket/coat targets
And the idea of using some silly inventory trick or AP dumping technique to stay at full movespeed is being used, and doesn't seem like proper in game meta management.
So how does that ever benefit someone? You cant dump your AP by changing equip while running. There's NO combat or getaway situation where standing around the 5 seconds it takes to dump your AP isnt better spent just running straight away.
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Well +25% for crit agility, because.. Well why wouldn't you get that perk, it seems like the most useful in the game, and to be honest it was the main reason i bumped my agility up by 2, not that getting knocked over was a huge problem with 1 ag (50% isn't bad, and that is with paperwall), but getting knocked over even less, is always a plus.
Dumping AP is a technique for moving quickly in general, but more so, for running away where you don't need AP anyway, people can dump or flush AP to get away easier without having really participated. That does not seem like the intent of the mechanic, and staying at full speed by, in essence, exploiting the mechanic says to me that there is need of a reworking, as cirn0 suggested in the third post in regards to low AG characters being benefited over high ag characters potentially with perks (I mean shouldn't they be the ones getting advantaged? I.E. by inverting the mechanic, low ag characters lose out and high ag characters are at an advantage).
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Well then lets agree that AG in general needs changing
Sprinter is good as it is. It benefits hit and run style tactics which is the only way to use the jacket type armors without getting killed in ZC
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Hmm, I agree that the concept of sprinter is good, but linking it to damage dealt (obviously not damage dealt to teammates lol) rather than AP lost for example would both encourage hit and run and deter the things I have mentioned.
Agility is another whole other discussion, does ap regen+ get added to your standing ap regen, to take it over 12.5?
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Totally agreed with Ramon. I'm sick and tired of mechanic noobs shouting everywhere on this forum. It's good as it is. Sprinter can be used as a tactical perk. If you use it just for running out of combat and drop your AP just for better speed when you fucked up you probably will be dead anyway. And yes. Paperwall + low agi, even with a crit agi perk = annihilation against REAL pvp players with REAL pvp characters.
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Totally agreed with Ramon. I'm sick and tired of mechanic noobs shouting everywhere on this forum. It's good as it is. Sprinter can be used as a tactical perk. If you use it just for running out of combat and drop your AP just for better speed when you fucked up you probably will be dead anyway. And yes. Paperwall + low agi, even with a crit agi perk = annihilation against REAL pvp players with REAL pvp characters.
Learn to read.
He is talking about its effect on low AG chars, who walk with a gambling gait that shouldn't be able to sprint.
Sprinter is kind of weird that it even buffs 1agi builds. Will need to rework this.
Make sprinter not work if AG is under 5?
annihilation against REAL pvp players with REAL pvp characters.
::)
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Doesn't matter if you play vs 'real PvP players' cause with 10CH you have over 100% crit agi res anyway, regardless of 1AG and paperwall. You don't even need the crit agi perk.
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Learn to read.
No, but can't you clearly see that I'm a mechanic noob who isn't a "real pvper"? The only reason I made this post is because i'm confused about my sexuality, and has nothing to do with flaws in the mechanic, furthermore AG 1 builds should be buffed, maybe give us an inverted critical agility mechanic, where it gets higher for lower agility scores, because i'm scared and don't understand things. /s
I'm sick and tired
Then shut up and go to sleep. 8)
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The harshest part of this imo is for people who took action boy, do or die and or psychopath.
Those perks are maluses to the current sprinter mechanic, when they should be bonuses.
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Doesn't matter if you play vs 'real PvP players' cause with 10CH you have over 100% crit agi res anyway, regardless of 1AG and paperwall. You don't even need the crit agi perk.
Its because the server was advertised as no stat will be useless, while leadership modules actually can make bunch of stats useless by just investing in CH. But far as I know this is subject for a change.
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Doesn't matter if you play vs 'real PvP players' cause with 10CH you have over 100% crit agi res anyway, regardless of 1AG and paperwall. You don't even need the crit agi perk.
Its because the server was advertised as no stat will be useless, while leadership modules actually can make bunch of stats useless by just investing in CH. But far as I know this is subject for a change.
I do hope so, I like that CH is effective, but rendering other stats ineffective is not good.
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Reading this I thought: "making AG movement speed connected with some small rates"? Like 10% difference between 1 and 10 AG.
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I would love that TBH even if scaled to +0.25 or +0.10 for every 2 AG points.
In combination with armor bonuses and maluses you would end up with some nice variations and sacrifices in movement speed and melee's choosing between speed and endurance would be drastically different in battle.
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What about this: you get an movement speed bonus based on you AP+ and remaining AP.
Formula will be (100-remaining AP) * Extra AP/2
If you have 4.04 you will gain 20.02% at 0 AP, and 40% if you have 8 extra AP
So if you have high AP Regen the bonus last shorter but it will be higher.
BTW: i would love to have AG conected with movement speed, even if the increase its very low
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2 mAdman
Наноха, ты?
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What about this: you get an movement speed bonus based on you AP+ and remaining AP.
Formula will be (100-remaining AP) * Extra AP/2
If you have 4.04 you will gain 20.02% at 0 AP, and 40% if you have 8 extra AP
So if you have high AP Regen the bonus last shorter but it will be higher.
BTW: i would love to have AG conected with movement speed, even if the increase its very low
That is an interesting approach, though low AG characters will still be slightly advantaged in that they can maintain it for longer, but it is a different and interesting idea, I kind of like it. (Unfortunately people with psychopath still lose out on potential move speed when they kill a player, so killing and running isn't as effective for them, where it should be).
2 Duke, sorry I can only read english currently, i ran that through google translate, but to no avail. :)
As a side note it would be awesome to see leather armor get a move speed buff trait too, say on mk 2 or above it gets sprinter, where as leather jackets get sprinter at trait 1 and again (to sprinter x2) as the 4th or 5th armor trait (on CLJ or CLC).
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The harshest part of this imo is for people who took action boy, do or die and or psychopath.
Those perks are maluses to the current sprinter mechanic, when they should be bonuses.
this ap should be 'dumped' into stimpacks or other combat actions bro. I love sprinter. movement speed from leadership needs a nerf. AOP needs no more variation in movement speed, at least right now. call sprinter 'freedom of movement' or 'graceful garb' ....
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hmm slight rework will be better
if ap<1/3 u get speed bonus AGI/3 and it last for Agi/2 seconds
sprinter can be reactivated only after full ap regen e.g 100
numbers are figurative
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hmm slight rework will be better
if ap<1/3 u get speed bonus AGI/3 and it last for Agi/2 seconds
sprinter can be reactivated only after full ap regen e.g 100
numbers are figurative
IMO the whole sprinter perk should be reversed. If your AP pool is full to the brim, you must run much faster than the guy whose AP pool is low. Think of it as "running out of breath". A guy that just did 2-4 swings with a giant sledgehammer shouldn't be able to outrun a guy who didn't.
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The opposite shouldn't happen either, than you can't run away from someone who can hit you when he reaches you as he is full of AP. At the moment you dump your AP to catch up with someone running but with low AP, he still has a chance to run away.
Melee sneakers will be OP running like that full of AP in core btw :)
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as I said, complete revamp of movement speed is planned out already, it has just not been on the agenda recently. Will discuss it with cirn later.
We might test a couple of new mechanics and changes "soon" so we get a feel for how it works out ingame.
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(https://33.media.tumblr.com/08426eb696eec2eab1663d78adf62648/tumblr_mrysxdU8T01rjmdnxo1_500.png)
If i cant go fast anymore after the rework i will find out where you and cirn0 live