FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => Suggestions => Topic started by: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 03:31:36 PM

Title: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 03:31:36 PM

Just a few suggestions for sneaking. All I hear about sneaking is bad and I actually think it could use a nerf or two. Not so much that it becomes unusable, but it seems over the top right now.

1) Getting hit while sneaking will cause winded
This will make sneakers use their heads and not just run around willynilly, won't really affect them if they are already close like 4 hex

2) Silent Running only allows you to run at 50-70% of the normal run speed
This will make sneakers more realistic, you can't just sprint around and not be seen or heard.(unless you are a true ninja)

3) Melee Weapons now cost 30 extra AP while sneaking
This will make sneaker reliant on crits(to get knockouts) to kill their targets. They won't be able to get two hits off right away, they will need to recover AP and this gives time for the target to get up.

4) Reduce Wakizashi range to 1 (not 2, wtf its not a spear)(plus all other knives)
Not that big of a nerf, but this just seems silly that you can thrust a knife as far as a spear.

5) Damage dealt to front of target is reduced by 50% while sneaking
So you actually have to assassinate targets, the whole point of sneaking

6) Perk: Martial Arts: Allows you to aim with melee attacks. AND Silent Running move to Lv15/18 Perk(not quest)and require 150 sneak.
Create a new perk to allow aimed attacks for melee and moving silent running to be picked instead of from quest.

SO tell me what you think about sneaking and my suggestions. Post anything you can think of as well.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Niamak on October 03, 2014, 03:36:34 PM

I think you should play a sneaker.  8)

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 03:45:49 PM

I've seen how sneakers are played(been in their squad) and fallout is an RPG game. No matter how you look at it, any gameplay style where you can kill in 1-2 hits is just plain unfun for the target. Sure, sneakers are having fun and i'm not saying completely obliterate it. These are just suggestions. In my opinion, sneakers should be recon/info gathering (mainly) with the ability to kill single targets with good play. Now, how you think sneakers should be played is your opinion and i won't ignore or bash it.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: RazorRamon on October 03, 2014, 04:04:30 PM

go away ponyfucker

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 04:15:09 PM

See my profile picture?
That's the look I had while reading your post :)

I'm just here trying to make this game better.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Niamak on October 03, 2014, 04:15:19 PM

Every feedback is a good feedback and you have a lot of suggestions which is good but I think you should try playing a sneaker. I'm sure you could learn a lot from it. Maybe even counter them or make more suggestions.

Not saying you are right or wrong. For example, in the current bg sniper meta, I tried DSR50 in ZC with my shitty build and I still think it's totally unbalanced huehuehue.

My opinion of sneakers : they will obliterate any immobile single target not covering their back so if you are moving around, covering your back and or not solo, you should be fine lel (unless vodoo)

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 04:43:00 PM

If I die by a sneaker, chances are I was being careless. The problem is that there is no way to know there is danger and PvP is only fun when you are facing an opponent you know you are fighting and there is back and forth play/counterplay. Sure, there is a thing called element of surprise, but that should be to get an advantage not an outright uncounterable win.

Seeing a sneaker from 10+ hexes? they are playing wrong and you have time to kill them.
Seeing a sneaker from 3-4 hexes? they are playing right and you are dead before your gun raises.
Seeing them 5-9 hexes? That's the sweetspot where there is room to counter, but still be in danger. And in this situation you either shotgun knockback or aim to cripple(knockout).

I see this as a problem (my opinion) because good sneakers won't allow counterplay, thus unfun. Also, notice that I am only adressing crit melee builds where you get 2 shot. I have yet to encounter a sneaker smg user. Sneaker flamer is just as bad, although you don't get knockout and you get time to heal or run(if wearing Fire Leather Armor).

Another suggestion: create footstep noises where you can hear them maybe 10 hexes away. Lower if you are sneaking and/or walking.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: PorkchopExpress on October 03, 2014, 04:53:43 PM

Fact is,a lot of  times you can see sneaker only at like 10 hexes....For some builds its already to late to actually fight and manage to win,so only viable option is running.Make some kind of "circle" of hexes (20-25?) around player in which sneaker is always detected if he's in front/sides of you and leave it as it is from behind.And with those crit build which are only "viable" way to play sneaker they should reduce dmg of wakizashi from behind to like 50% extra dmg not double,or leave it as it is ,but make sneak weapons not aimable?.....Same goes for those ridicolous crit hits from bg snipers.I dunno crit seems to easy to stack in this game,especially when we're talking about aimed attacks....Don't have big problem with sneakers,as i use often sneak myself(to crazy skill to miss it out) but changes are needed,because to many casual players who make most of server population are getting raped.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Doobee on October 03, 2014, 07:57:50 PM

Pardon me, but the worst shit about sneakers is the fact, that when you run from them or even chase them, they repeatedly appear and disappear making it impossible to hit them. I would say once the sneaker gets close enough to the enemy for some period of time (1-2 seconds) it will automatically desneak him. Right now it works something like this : You wander around in the core, not knowing whats gonna happend, suddenly you spot a sneak, with the best reaction time you can manage you avoid giving the sneaker first hit and you try to keep him on sight, but no matter how precisely you copy his movement, he appears and disappears, making it impossible to shoot him, for as long as he needs to confuse you enough to get on your back again and simply double slice you.

Basicaly spotted sneak cant sneak in the middle of the open street. AmIwrong?

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Smalltime on October 03, 2014, 08:56:10 PM

This thread is redundant, please look to see if there is a thread about a subject before creating another one.

http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=1676.0

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: paragon on October 03, 2014, 09:20:02 PM

Quote from: Smalltime on October 03, 2014, 08:56:10 PM

This thread is redundant, please look to see if there is a thread about a subject before creating another one.

http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=1676.0

I don't think you're actually correct, sorry.
That topic is developer's poll and have the goal to discuss developer's suggestion
This one is user's suggestion and he doesn't have to know about developer's opinion at all. Also he doesn't have to know all others suggestions related to this topic, at least I didn't see any rule about it. if there's any, please tell me that.

I can't say that I enjoy one-day threads and stuff but in this case I think you're doing it wrong.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 11:17:29 PM

My apologies, I don't look at the developers polls often and didn't even realize it was there. Also, that topic and the other topic about sneak on this board are about weapon weight penalties, my topic is about melee sneak or burst sneak counters and problems discussion. If you do not like it don't read it, it's not like i'm spamming the board.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Smalltime on October 04, 2014, 01:07:14 AM

Quote from: paragon on October 03, 2014, 09:20:02 PM

I don't think you're actually correct, sorry.
That topic is developer's poll and have the goal to discuss developer's suggestion
This one is user's suggestion and he doesn't have to know about developer's opinion at all. Also he doesn't have to know all others suggestions related to this topic, at least I didn't see any rule about it. if there's any, please tell me that.

I can't say that I enjoy one-day threads and stuff but in this case I think you're doing it wrong.

Quote from: Sijjy on October 03, 2014, 11:17:29 PM

Also, that topic and the other topic about sneak on this board are about weapon weight penalties, my topic is about melee sneak or burst sneak counters and problems discussion. If you do not like it don't read it, it's not like i'm spamming the board.

(http://i.gyazo.com/20860c848043ef9a85b58b25f40325e7.png)
This is the last line of the post.
That thread was not solely dedicated to BG sneak, and as a result of that thread, ALL sneak has been changed drastically. It would have been a more effective zone to discuss sneak changes at the time.

No moderatory actions were taken, don't be so fast to get defensive.

Also, paragon, I certainly hope that the player has consideration for the developer's opinions, as they are the ones who are balancing the game. Regardless, that "developer's poll" was asking for input on the subject (which was given here, and not where it would have been more helpful.)

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: paragon on October 04, 2014, 03:44:11 AM

I'd say that:
1. it's good that you've shown the user the developer thread. Nice of you
2. you shouldn't expect user read all / any threads before suggesting. It's up to him to do or not to do that. Especially if there's no forum rule about it. That's why the number 1 is even nicer of you.
3. if somebody wants to share this opinion or its part with the developer personally, just go and quote it in that topic. (Nice mk3)

"Consideration for the developer's opinions" will take everyone to know dev's opinion to be able to consider it, and there's no rule for it again AFAIN... as tastes are different you can't force players to consider anyone's opinion. It could be ignorant from them to not to, but I don't think you can blame anyone for it. In the end, it's developer's call to decide what to do with the game. User's roles are ability to suggest and probably sometimes even be heard / considered sometimes.

I hope I didn't sound aggressive or anything, I just hope that people will be given the right of the voice even if someone thinks that they say it "wrong way / place / time / manner". And you as the representative of the law in here won't be abusive with your power to shut the voice. I really hope you have the set of criteria to determine if you have the right to apply administrative force or not.

Besides it, I hope your work will improve the forum experience and I'm not going to mess with you, in opposite, I would like to help you with it.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Sijjy on October 04, 2014, 01:03:00 PM

I only skimmed the topic of the developers thread you posted and what I took from it was that it was focused on weight penalties. If the thread moved slightly towards other parts of sneak I do not know(did not read any posts, apologies). I get it, there is a thread about sneak that the developers wanted feedback for. Again, I apologize because I did not see it. And stated before, I don't read developer polls OFTEN(they are far between), not don't read them at all. This post just came to mind and I did not want to lose the ideas(if they are unbalanced or not doesn't matter).

In the future, maybe I will use notepad or something to get my ideas out and then look at other forums before posting.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: MARXMAN on October 04, 2014, 01:08:49 PM

Quote from: Doobee on October 03, 2014, 07:57:50 PM

Pardon me, but the worst shit about sneakers is the fact, that when you run from them or even chase them, they repeatedly appear and disappear making it impossible to hit them. I would say once the sneaker gets close enough to the enemy for some period of time (1-2 seconds) it will automatically desneak him. Right now it works something like this : You wander around in the core, not knowing whats gonna happend, suddenly you spot a sneak, with the best reaction time you can manage you avoid giving the sneaker first hit and you try to keep him on sight, but no matter how precisely you copy his movement, he appears and disappears, making it impossible to shoot him, for as long as he needs to confuse you enough to get on your back again and simply double slice you.

Basicaly spotted sneak cant sneak in the middle of the open street. AmIwrong?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


This, THIS, THIS, THIS AND THIS

It's impossible to kill a sneaker that keeps disappearing in front of your face.

Title: Re: Sneaking Suggestions
Post by: Darvin on October 04, 2014, 03:32:22 PM

I just love all suggestions. +1
It is
1. Realistic
2. Balanced