FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix
Game improvements => Suggestions => Topic started by: Poker-Jack on September 12, 2014, 05:05:50 PM
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SUGGESTION AT BOTTOM
Friendly Players shooting OTHER friendly players, just for being around during town control...
With current system in place, a larger squad can wipe out any other smaller friendly squad without losing reputation. See below:
(http://i.imgur.com/5M8Kx7s.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eV21Pwe.jpg)
Windrunner and her group here seem to have no problem killing new friendly players for no reason... or rather (for being bluesuit during ZC)
I die because I defend the new player of course (Of course this is a logical thing to do apparently)
SUGGESTION:
NPC in base that will take votes to kick a volatile member of the faction. Enough votes, and maybe that person goes back down to 0 reputation? (This will only hurt everyone but the richest of players, so even this is only a temporary "fix" )
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I think there should be much harsher penalties for team killing deliberately and without good reason. The only reason to team kill -ever- is if someone is looting a team member, or is a known team killer. Otherwise its just trolling and it hurts the faction.
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I think there should be much harsher penalties for team killing deliberately and without good reason. The only reason to team kill -ever- is if someone is looting a team member, or is a known team killer. Otherwise its just trolling and it hurts the faction.
Being reset to 0 reputation would hurt all but the richest of faction members, so even this I don't think is a good response.
But here we see a new player being gunned down for no reason, Do we really need to make the game HARDER for players who are new... and make it harder because of SHIT TEAMMATES like Wind Runner?
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LOL if You re useless on ZC and only looting Your teammates dont cry that they are killing You.
I will kill everyone who will loot my teammate.
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LOL if You re useless on ZC and only looting Your teammates dont cry that they are killing You.
I will kill everyone who will loot my teammate.
No one looted anyone. Not sure how you're trying to insinuate anything of the sort.
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why is wojciech being reported for raising a valid point? If anyone goes to the core, especially to zone control, in bluesuit or sandrobes, he clearly is just a vulture. This is why we have even left that gap of 50score until reputation penalitues apply, so you can get rid of looters (which could be alts of the enemy faction as well)
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why is wojciech being reported for raising a valid point? If anyone goes to the core, especially to zone control, in bluesuit or sandrobes, he clearly is just a vulture. This is why we have even left that gap of 50score until reputation penalitues apply, so you can get rid of looters (which could be alts of the enemy faction as well)
Because nothing of the sort happened in the scenario I posted. It was irrelevant nonsense that had nothing to do with PURPOSEFUL TKs from a large squad who take pot shots to eliminate random new players. I was not a vulture, I didn't touch ANY body, and I was killed... why was I killed by fellow lawyers? And why do they suffer no repercussion?
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There should be serious repercussions for killing a teammate without a valid reason, being new or undergeared is not a valid reason.
If they start looting friendly corpses then yeah take action but the mere presence of them is not a crime.
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Unless they are scouting for the ennemy.
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Amazing how everyone comes out of the woodwork to defend Windrunner. It's clear that he and his group were gunning down anyone not in their circle.
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Unless they are scouting for the ennemy.
And how do you know if they are or not? killing everyone in case one is a spy isn't good for a faction..
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I think killing member of our faction really sucks and break some very cool aspect of the aop gameplay.
We are not stranger ; we are all Lawyers ! ( or bb , v-tech, ... )
This should be heavily punished by loosing reputation ( I can't understand that someone killing faction member can still stay a trusted member of the faction that have access to the hearth for example - it does not fit with the background ), by jail time, and by not winning any award for the current zc if any ( Don't feel right to be rewarded by the faction if you kill your mates )
What if someone take your loot ?
Yes it's not very cool but... you are dead in the middle of a city ! Isn't it better that a member of our faction take the loot and not member from the opposite faction ? I would like to say what old player told me when I started to play fonline ; wasteland is harsh ; it's true for everyone. ( I like very much the idea of an other topic that is : when you are dead only member of your squad can loot you until you respawn timer is over and after everyone can loot you )
What if it is an ennemy cheating / spying ?
Well it can always happen.. But it's not a valid excuse to kill all bluesuit. It's more something that a gm will handle I think ( like alt , etc.. as it is game abuse and not gameplay )
Btw, just my personal opinion so stay cool ok ;-)
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I was a part of the group so let me clear something out.
First of all there were 3 or 4 full squads of lawyers gathered for 1 fu**ing good reason, as we tend to have some offensive players and we don't cooperate so well. But there we were, almost 30 people gathered to capture the entire town. And then one moment come in Jack and his friend. Ok 2 people more, want to get some xp for ZC, ok no problem. But the bluesuit starts running into buildings oppening doors etc, and comes back to us. Buildings are open, so if the enemy would be looking on the map they could clarify our position and start an attack. Jack started a chitty-chat how we should involve noobs, teach them etc. Ok he made a good point but the bluesuit in that time was roaming free. So he got a shot between the eyes. Some people joined the "warning shots" and the bluesuit ended up dead. Jack started shouting arguing with Wind, starting another debate about morality, not shooting friendlies, and cursing on us. He also got shot, and we left those 2 corpses to rot, we touched none of their stuff and hurried further for ZC, but he was so mad that he started a war on the faction chat.
And true yes i shot him, becouse after like 5-10 minutes of his blabbering i got angry.
And yay my first PK!
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Ender >
That's why those guy could only be shot on ZC when scouting/looting become an issue on a larger scale. Outside of ZC you lose reputation for shooting low level passive blue suits.
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I was a part of the group so let me clear something out.
Not only were you wrong on multiple facets of this story... but what exactly did you clear up about why you killed 2 teammates for no reason?
Did your story justify ANYTHING? Just want to make sure... I'm confused.
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Its a shame that reputation is so easy to come by, if it wasn't for the Relic donations then Player Killing would be less likely by anyone who wants to get places.
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Then jack post the log of you arguing with Wind, please ho ahead and show us what you wrote.
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I also consider blue suits as a big issue. You shouldn't be able to enter active ZC if you don't have tier 2 armor in good condition and tier 2 weapon or some score (if you want to go back and loot yourself after death). If faction start ZC blue suits from this faction should be kicked on WM.
Blue suits crippling ZC fun. Most of blue suits are dirty looters, scouts or score donators.
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Ender ->
It's so fun when you are winning ZC and there is some bluesuit hoping around looting your teammates, and you can't stop him, then he just leaves and cripples his own faction.
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I do not think it is a good solution. Experencied players are not more important than new one. Action of some player should not broke the game for others.
Can we try to forget about this specific incident and try to think at larger scale ? What can we do to avoid this shity situation in the future ?
Maybe take more time to explain the specific gameplay of zone control to bluesuit ? ( You know it's not obvious for new player that we do not open door in zone control, that we stay hidden , that we don't run & loot, ... ). I think a player that is well integrated (fit ?) in the faction will not act like a asshole. It is very very hard for new player to take active participation in this game as there is a lot of old players and old team coming with their own history and not very patient with newbies. Don't forget you all start this game once... Even if it was 6 years ago.
I still see some paradox when we tell a new player that loose gear that "Wasteland is harsh" ( Yeah, I heard that so many times ) but If a experienced player loose it's gear it's not normal anymore ?!? I do not think experienced player will take more time to get new equipment ( good gear and tier 2 weapons ) than new player ( shity gear & tier 1 weapons ) so for me the death penality is the same for all at the end. Being able to get it's loot back should be lucky thing not the default one. You should be happy when you succeed it instead of being hangry if failed.
In all case killing is not the solution and should always be hardly punished. Maybe a vote on the faction to indicate bad players could help ( they will go to jail if their enter faction's again or something like that ) and could solve this kind of situation.
Again, just my personal opinion.
@Maykot : We post on the same time so to answer you I quote my post : "Being able to get it's loot back should be lucky thing not the default one. You should be happy when you succeed it instead of being hangry if failed." I always go to zone control if I'm available and try to organize some if needed ; I never get my loot back once I'm dead during zone control ( Loosing both good armor and tier 2 weapons ) and that's simply the game ! Wasteland is Harsh ;-)
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Ehm... Those bluesuits ARE experienced players that KNOW what they are doing ;D. You are thinking it the wrong way. Problem was that in the very first days they were more experienced then everyone else. I saw a couple of people tagging everyone to the assignments and just wait till they complete a quest for them or simply go scavenging in the meantime, those are the same players I'm talking about.
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I do not think it is a good solution. Experencied players are not more important than new one. Action of some player should not broke the game for others.
Can we try to forget about this specific incident and try to think at larger scale ? What can we do to avoid this shity situation in the future ?
Maybe take more time to explain the specific gameplay of zone control to bluesuit ? ( You know it's not obvious for new player that we do not open door in zone control, that we stay hidden , that we don't run & loot, ... ). I think a player that is well integrated (fit ?) in the faction will not act like a asshole. It is very very hard for new player to take active participation in this game as there is a lot of old players and old team coming with their own history and not very patient with newbies. Don't forget you all start this game once... Even if it was 6 years ago.
I still see some paradox when we tell a new player that loose gear that "Wasteland is harsh" ( Yeah, I heard that so many times ) but If a experienced player loose it's gear it's not normal anymore ?!? I do not think experienced player will take more time to get new equipment ( good gear and tier 2 weapons ) than new player ( shity gear & tier 1 weapons ) so for me the death penality is the same for all at the end. Being able to get it's loot back should be lucky thing not the default one. You should be happy when you succeed it instead of being hangry if failed.
In all case killing is not the solution and should always be hardly punished. Maybe a vote on the faction to indicate bad players could help ( they will go to jail if their enter faction's again or something like that ) and could solve this kind of situation.
Again, just my personal opinion.
@Maykot : We post on the same time so to answer you I quote my post : "Being able to get it's loot back should be lucky thing not the default one. You should be happy when you succeed it instead of being hangry if failed." I always go to zone control if I'm available and try to organize some if needed ; I never get my loot back once I'm dead during zone control ( Loosing both good armor and tier 2 weapons ) and that's simply the game ! Wasteland is Harsh ;-)
You re right...but I know some people who were playing on other servers. For example in my faction (family) there are scavengers. They are looting my friends and just escaping. I know something about them, cuz they played on fo2, so I know what I should expect from them.
I think that 100% organisation inside one faction is impossible.
Only one sollution is to give Your TS to new players and try to teach them a bit how to behave during ZC or help them getting lvls
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So people are bringing up looters and scavengers in bluesuits as IF that was the situation that the screenshots I posted detailed... IT IS NOT, so can we please stop pretending that WindRunner/Joker/Gown are all great people who were just too impatient to properly handle a "bluesuit looter"
1)He was not a LOOTER
2)He BARELY speaks english
3)He was standing next to the leader of the squad saying: "Hello, whats going on".
Joker, stop trying to justify killing teammates because "you got impatient". And whatever I said to you, is ALSO irrelevant, I can call you whatever I want, shooting me and/or a teammate is still shooting a teammate regardless of what I said to you. I'll keep myself civil on the forums to help fix issues, but don't try and pass blame to me as if I dug my own grave for speaking up in the new players' defense.
You're despicably petty. Help contribute to functionality of the game, and stop partaking in activities that can detriment the population of this game. New players are what Fonlines (ALL OF THEM) needs. IF not, the world would be bleak and empty. So start HELPING our friendly new players, stop being king-asshole.
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Then make a goddamn tutorial show him theway around, TEACH HIM ENGLISH, show him the basics, and then, just then come to a ZC not the othe way around. And beside it IS JUST A GAME. I died on my first 3 loot runs in the game, damn i even died at the tutorial zone. Right now i lost like ten CA of all tiers but mostlt MK2. And coming to a ZC not willing to help but for mere core scavenging is IDIOCY.
Here the yesterdays log.
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Then make a goddamn tutorial show him theway around, TEACH HIM ENGLISH, show him the basics, and then, just then come to a ZC not the othe way around. And beside it IS JUST A GAME. I died on my first 3 loot runs in the game, damn i even died at the tutorial zone. Right now i lost like ten CA of all tiers but mostlt MK2. And coming to a ZC not willing to help but for mere core scavenging is IDIOCY.
Here the yesterdays log.
I missed the part where you WERE KILLED BY YOUR TEAMMATES FOR NO REASON WHILE TRYING TO LEARN A HARSH UNFORGIVING GAME.
Thanks for continuing to try and justify team killing. I'm glad you think it's entirely okay, and will make it easier for devs to make it a harsher penalty for your action. You should be brought down to 0 reputation, and should have to work missions to get it back. SOMETHING to make it difficult and troublesome for teamkilling.
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Teamkilling punishment: Reputation reduced to 0 AND relics no longer boost reputation, this will require players to do a LOT of missions before they have high reputation again.
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And for your behaviour on the chat you should be stripped down to 0 with no fraction. I got several times killed by our fraction members and i dont whine about it. I repay my debts, have any problem with that then come lets settle it. I propose a revolver duel, like in the wild west.
A basic leather jacket + the S&W Revolver with a full mag + 25 ammo.
If you want we can make a score for example 500 caps. And no mather who wins, the oter shuts his mouth, deal?
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If you want we can make a score for example 500 caps. And no mather who wins, the oter shuts his mouth, deal?
You killed innocent friendlies without cause. Not sure why you think a duel would somehow change that?
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For Fucks Sake mate will ya understand a basic fact that :
-i'm not the first
-i won't be the last
-tons of people do the same
-people die constantly
- In real world you can also die by a random bullet , who knows where the next psycho is.
- I give you a way to settle matters as for me it looks like you are hungry for a sort of revenge i give you a way out: duel me if you win you have your revenge, if you loose you will stop complaining about the matter.
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Please guys, behave. Don't let a game make you rage and yell at each other.
This duel sounds like a fair way to solve your quarrel here. And it's damn roleplay ;)
About these team killing issues, we'll certainly bring more improvements and changes to the whole ZC system. You just have to give us time to fix bugs and figure out the best way to solve it.
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For Fucks Sake mate will ya understand a basic fact that :
-i'm not the first
-i won't be the last
-tons of people do the same
-people die constantly
- In real world you can also die by a random bullet , who knows where the next psycho is.
Did anyone see a "random bullet" fired in my screenshots? I saw MULTIPLE bullets AIMED AT MY HEAD...
Shangular... is suggestion forum for roleplay? I'm trying to maintain the quality of thread by keeping it on topic. Apologies if I'm in the minority for trying to fix a problem without making is personal.
And here is for anyone who FORGOT?
read the chat log:
(http://i.imgur.com/eV21Pwe.jpg)
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The quality of this topic is 0.ANd beside you make it very personal as you have the biggest problem in the world with it. You dont like that what happened, avoid such situations in future, don't create them, and maybe even stop playing the game then nobody will be able to PK you.
You accept the duel, or not?
Just beside dueling is a way of settling matters used by our ancestors since the beggining of times, if you dont like my terms then propose you own, or even better, Shangalar could you set the terms for the duel?
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I'm shocked a suggestion thread is being allowed to be derailed into roleplay nonsense.
New players being slaughtered by larger more organized groups "just because"... well there goes the neighborhood.
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As I told just before Poker-Jack, we're aware of the situation and we'll do our best to fix it as soon as we can. Meanwhile, there's not much more you can do than getting over with it. I'm sorry for the death of your friend's character, but I can't help agreeing that he shouldn't probably have been there in the first place if he just started playing the game.
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but I can't help agreeing that he shouldn't probably have been there in the first place if he just started playing the game.
Well I guess if that's the stance of the devs what more is there to say eh?
New guys be damned if curiosity gets the best of you and you run into 'teammates'.
Feel free to close thread.
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but to clarify: the person I'm defending was hardly a "friend"... just a teammate who was gunned down for saying "hello". Figured lawyers would give a shit about something like that if they're going to attempt some "roleplay"
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....but I can't help agreeing that he shouldn't probably have been there in the first place if he just started playing the game.
Have to agree with this, if he is new, take him into the wastes, enc things, do missions, show mechanics, advise him on the use of cover etc. a much better way to learn than going straight to a ZC. If I was the leader of said group, i would have been very frustrated in having to stop and teach new guy ZC tactics while with the prospect of being attacked.
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We don't encourage players to kill their team mates, that's ridiculous to think so. We understand how frustrating it is to be killed when you're just coming to help. However we also do understand the frustration of the experienced players when a newcomer arrives unequiped, not aware of anything going on around and just randomly wandering and looting stuff hardly earned by others. We'll see how we're going to solve it, meanwhile, I clean and close this thread.
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I agree with Shangalar that if you're completely new to the game, you don't really belong in a Zone Control action. If you insist on going, then you should respect what your team mates are telling you. If you end up getting team killed in such a situation, there's often a reason for it, even if you may not agree with it or even know about it at the time.
Now there may be cases where people get teamkilled without reasons or for bad ones, but from a development point of view, this is a tremendously difficult problem to solve. How to define when somebody "deserves" to get killed and when he doesn't? The extreme points are equally unacceptable. Disabling friendly fire or extremely severe punishments for team kills is a bad idea, because then there's no way to stop griefers, looters and other people who are not contributing but only ruining the experience for others. On the other extreme, having no repercussions at all for team killing would also be bad because some people would just go around massacring everybody. So we're looking for something inbetween.
Having played a lot of PvP myself, I know how annoying it can be when you are interrupted in the middle of a fight by some bluesuits or noobs who have no idea what is going on. If there is no way for players to remove them from the battlefield, the consequences in terms of the fight can be rather severe. And few things can be as annoying as having a huge battle, barely coming out of it alive, and then comes 5 bluesuits from nowhere and run away with the spoils. I can't think of an obvious or easy to implement way to handle such thievery, so I think being allowed to shoot them is the best solution right now. This is why there are no reputation penalties during and just after ZC for shooting players who didn't contribute in the fight (players with less than 50 score from that fight).
From a roleplay and realistic perspective it's not exactly optimal to have team killing as a measure to prevent such things, but then again, death is also not permanent, so there's that. We've spent a lot of time discussing these issues but we haven't been able to come up with anything better as of yet.
Anyway, team killing in most cases is not tolerated, but during Zone Control the rules are lighter, and there's a reason for that. I'm open to suggestions for how to improve the system though, and the idea of a sort of "faction voting" against some player might be viable, though it would require certain measures to avoid mass alting and bullying as well.
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I'm open to suggestions for how to improve the system though, and the idea of a sort of "faction voting" against some player might be viable, though it would require certain measures to avoid mass alting and bullying as well.
I would suggest that a voting system be implemented in CONJUNCTION with a sub-forum dedicated to detailing evidence against senseless teamkilling. With enough evidence backed against a player and with enough faction support their reputation get reset to 0?
Devs could then be in charge of who gets penalized.
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Well for a such suggestion id say friendly PK body count.
If you kill a certain number of faction members you have to face a punishment. But there we come to another problem, such a thing should last only a time like a month lets say, becouse of the friendly fire feature. That would be a good solution i think, but also hard to implement.
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Well for a such suggestion id say friendly PK body count.
This clearly helps large squads like yours kill players without getting any kill count on 99% of your men. And you know this VERY well... your team already knows to take 1 shot each.
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<facepalm>Here we go again...
Yes here comes out another issue,in such a case i would say the kill should be "split" to all those who shot at the target for lets say the last 2 minutes, again it would require a ton of coding.
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It's very possibly a language barrier that prevents me from seeing exactly what type of penalty you're suggesting that a team split amongst themselves for 2 minutes.
If anyone can make sense of this please be my guest and explain like I'm a retard:
Well for a such suggestion id say friendly PK body count.
If you kill a certain number of faction members you have to face a punishment. But there we come to another problem, such a thing should last only a time like a month lets say, becouse of the friendly fire feature. That would be a good solution i think, but also hard to implement.
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From what I see in those screenshots there is Khan Papa ( bluesuit ) and Poker Jack ( sandrobe ) lying, so basically they deserved by comming to ZC EOT.
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Jack gets killed 10 minutes before the screenshot by Windrunnners group, he goes to scavenge more loot, shows up here, Kahn shows up also, Windrunner says leave gtfo without armor, and then kills him 30 seconds later, Jack goes off on him, windrunner shoots him, and a couple of his buddies shoot him, Jack dies. 2 days worth of arguing happens, Now here we are
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Jack has basically one line of defence : " Dey shot meg, they bastards! I want revenge! Punish 'em!"
You dont get the part where you shouldn't be there in the first place. Secondly you were warned to leave even a few times, but you started a debate in consequence of what you got shot.
He can;t just accept the fact that he did something he shouldn't so yeah Jack you messed up, face that.
What i mean by split is that everyone who fired a shot should get the penalty. For example char X got shot by A,B,C and D. If every of them fired atleast 1 shot in the time of 2 mins before the death of X everyone of them should get +1 to their PK count. But after a month for example the +1 PK count should vanish, becouse you can't say if it was intended or if X wasn't provoking them too. Both sides are always guilty, and both should be punished. So chars who tet often shot by their faction members should also face a punishment becouse if that happens that means they are useless and don't belong in the faction.
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The way it is currently handled is close to perfection.
You lose reputation if you kill a team member, except for looters/scouts during ZC, in which you HAVE to kill those guys.
Another improvement could be limiting the number of relics one character could give. Let's say you gave 50 relics, the npc would say that you brought enough of them and should focus on other tasks.
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What i mean by split is that everyone who fired a shot should get the penalty. For example char X got shot by A,B,C and D. If every of them fired atleast 1 shot in the time of 2 mins before the death of X everyone of them should get +1 to their PK count. But after a month for example the +1 PK count should vanish, becouse you can't say if it was intended or if X wasn't provoking them too. Both sides are always guilty, and both should be punished. So chars who tet often shot by their faction members should also face a punishment becouse if that happens that means they are useless and don't belong in the faction.
This would be difficult to implement, and in the end I wonder if we wouldn't get a lot of whining from such a system as well. Imagine you shoot somebody by accident with burst fire for example and he then gets killed by someone else. That makes you a PK? A lot of coding effort to avoid such cases. Each time somebody gets shot, you need to store a list of all players who shot that person since time X, and then when that player dies, you have to run through the list and compare the faction of the ones who shot the player with the player and the one who got the kill shot... And even then, what if somebody tries to PK you but an NPC gets the kill shot? Then it wouldn't count, but it should. Coding efforts +++. And even in a pure teamkill situation, maybe you shoot somebody once to "send a message" or something, and then somebody else goes on to kill him. Also doesn't seem fair, if your intent wasn't to kill. How to measure intent from a coding perspective? I think if you can come up with an elegant solution to that, you would have a bright future in the field of Artificial Intelligence.
Another improvement could be limiting the number of relics one character could give. Let's say you gave 50 relics, the npc would say that you brought enough of them and should focus on other tasks.
I like this idea. I'm not sure to what extent relics are used to boost reputation right now, but limiting it so that you can't instantly get something like 30k reputation sounds good to me.
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Lidae - relics are WAY TOO EASY to find, I can spend like 10-15 minutes to gain 30+ relics, which basically means you have NO penalty by TK'ing.
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Sounds like maybe the spawn rate of relics should be reduced then. And/or the value of them (both caps and reputation).
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Sounds like maybe the spawn rate of relics should be reduced then. And/or the value of them (both caps and reputation).
You can trade them for caps? o0. Didn't even think it was viable, so never tried.
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Some noobs in lawyers ofthen sold them, the price was like 200 caps per artifact.
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Some noobs in lawyers ofthen sold them, the price was like 200 caps per artifact.
That's freaking awesome, I've gotta find that npc. I don't TK anyway, so all those free faction armours for me sounds nice.
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I killed a team member once, I'm not proud and I appologised after (I was gullible enough to believe he was a "spy")
I found it way too easy to get back into the fold. I simply purchased 2 relics from a friend and all was forgiven.
My punishment should have been much harsher!
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V-tec is literally FULL of members who wait outside of ZC in sand robes or bluesuits. Then as soon as the PvP is over, they sprint in and grab as much shit as their 10 STR, strong back, packrat, buffout, food builds can carry.
BlindmanBill now walks around V-tec base with a minigun and Lawyer armor, of which he's done nothing to deserve.
These people will watch you die as opposed to help you, just for the chance to loot your body. They may even try to body block your escape.
I have no sympathy for them. There have been more than one occasion when have outright killed a V-tec member for showing up naked to ZC.
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I don't think that the relic spawn rate is that high.
Almost all of my teammate needed a few real days to get enough relics.
The thing is, after a while non of your team members need relics, which lead to hoarding them, and have ton of them. I might be interesting to create new kind of relics every months that replace the old ones, so you don't end up having ton of relics at home, an almost infinite reserve of reputation.
That and limiting the number you can give would make you more afraid of losing too much reputation. Not necessary afraid of losing any reputation, but be more cautious about which quantity. Or maybe instead of giving a maximum total of 50, you might a maximum number of relics that you can give daily. Let's say you gave 5 relics today, you cannot give more until tomorow.
IMO, it could replace all the other ideas.
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Naossano, I personally donated over 80 relics on the 2nd day I believe. Spawn rate IS high, or just make them give less than 1k rep. ( this number was rather high to begin with).
Anyway, before making any suggestions we first need to locate the problem, and THEN post suggestions about how to solve it.
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Is an in-game voting system used in conjunction with a sub-forum thread too complicated to manage? Would also create roleplay possibilities for those looking for something to do. (If that's something folks want to consider).
But splitting up any rep loss between different people is STILL only goign to benefit the larger squads who have the men/rep/relics/time to spare. They'll only lose a fraction of the total amount of rep, which is wrong.
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level cap the zone's for zone control could be a start, but i see zone control turning into smaller teams like we have seen in the other iterations of the game. These teams will be elitists and care for themselves only. at current i don't do zone control at all due to not having sufficient character to do so, but if i was it would be with small gang on teamspeak and to hell with everyone else faction friendlies or not. I don't think trust was ever meant to be given so easily ;)