FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => Developer Corner => Topic started by: S1mancoder on December 04, 2016, 07:26:07 PM

Title: Perk system changes
Post by: S1mancoder on December 04, 2016, 07:26:07 PM
We have some ideas on how to make perk system better working, more clear to player and generally easier to handle as a dev. This thread is for discussing those ideas.

General concept is to divide perks into just 3 groups:
1) 3+ lvl perks - also referred as low perks or beginner perks, you get at least 3 of them (3,6,9 lvls);
2) 12+ lvl perks - also referred as mid perks of base perks, you get at least 3 of them (12,15,21 lvls);
3) 21+ lvl perks - also referred as high perks or advanced perks, you get only 2 of them max (21,24 lvls)

If it is not clear - you can take lower level perks like 3+ lvl ones at higher levels.

Here we have google doc, in a tab "Old perks redistributed" you can see how current perks would be rearranged to fit into system:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18FZZBj7aq5ju1lBv6vxNxr3jSwzU3QkvnhqL4cUl-2g/edit#gid=213623741

Grayed perks are those which effect will be same as now, others are going to be changed (mostly slight changes).

On other tabs there are some ideas about future perks introduction but lets leave it aside for now, that stuff is highly WIP.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 05, 2016, 02:02:04 AM
And what's wrong with the way it is now? You're pretty much doing just moving perks from 12 & 15 to higher levels and vice versa for the perks at higher levels.

You should probably change perks instead of changing the system. Like Gain SPECIAL point perk to 2 or 3, fast reload to 25%, Do or die, etc.

And you added sneak perks?  :o  Jesus no wonder nobody plays.

As for new perks, stonewall should have been ingame by now, I believe I told john to do something about it when server had PVP. Also you're adding too many perks to the game, this more of a quantity and no quality. And some sound OP like that Bleed god blessing while most are just absurd.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: clochard on December 05, 2016, 06:40:36 AM
i do not agree with the +2-3 special, cause too powerfull then you have action boy and the criticals related perks who become useless.

+1 for the fast reload, it's too weak curently, even for the big guns users.

Do or die, well, don't know.

Some perks are indeed more op that others, some could use some testing...

Single minded feels odd,  educated not worthy taking.

very nice tweak on simian warfare.


Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: FuckYou on December 05, 2016, 08:46:39 AM
 I like the current system. You need to make game simplier and those changes will revert everything. Just add some tweaks to existing perks because some are outdated and some are useless.
 Well you should add some pve perks post 24 lvl, since most of them are useless now. I always liked bonehead or stonewall perks from other fonlines so maybe add it to aop?


Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Wire on December 05, 2016, 09:10:22 AM
Yes, make perk system like in Path of Exile.
+5% damage, +10 hp, so exciting
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Letys on December 05, 2016, 10:42:53 AM
You need to make game simplier

I dont understand You mate, still talking about making game simpler, what that hard is in this game then You repeat this?
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: John Porno on December 05, 2016, 11:20:13 AM
educated has niche uses for gifted chars and Ive actually used it on a char recently to get some more FA cause I couldnt sacrifacy any actual stat points for IN, however with Gain Intelligence being a level 3 perk, it does seem odd.

While gain stat perks were much more important years back when they were designed, it still feels odd to see them at level 3 now but I guess the value of a perk has been increasing since then.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Teela on December 05, 2016, 12:48:34 PM

As for new perks, stonewall should have been ingame by now

Yes yes yes of course and don´t forget onehexing.

Good thing that you guys are reworking perks. Things were a bit boring with all the staple perks one should take for any build. This is sure to shake things up a bit. While you´re at it also include a couple more post lvl 24 convenience perks. The ones we have are good but once you´re past lvl 80 or sth things get a bit boring. Like:

Reek

After years in the wasteland without a proper shower your smell would make a polecat throw up. As a result, ghouls will regard you as one of their own and will not be hostile.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 05, 2016, 02:28:06 PM
i do not agree with the +2-3 special, cause too powerfull then you have action boy and the criticals related perks who become useless.

+1 for the fast reload, it's too weak curently, even for the big guns users.

Do or die, well, don't know.

Some perks are indeed more op that others, some could use some testing...

Single minded feels odd,  educated not worthy taking.

very nice tweak on simian warfare.

RUDE, I took educated on all my builds, helped me achieved 250% Weapon, 200% 2ndary and 180% 3rd.

As for the SPECIAL bonus, keep in mind that this guy is choosing a perk out of others he can choose. I'd rather take +2 EN instead of that critical endurance perk, etc.

Yes yes yes of course and don´t forget onehexing.

Good thing that you guys are reworking perks. Things were a bit boring with all the staple perks one should take for any build. This is sure to shake things up a bit. While you´re at it also include a couple more post lvl 24 convenience perks. The ones we have are good but once you´re past lvl 80 or sth things get a bit boring. Like:

After years in the wasteland without a proper shower your smell would make a polecat throw up. As a result, ghouls will regard you as one of their own and will not be hostile.

Why would you want to add one hexing in AoP? If there should be one hexing, SMGs should only be able to do it.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Teela on December 05, 2016, 02:44:13 PM


Why would you want to add one hexing in AoP? If there should be one hexing, SMGs should only be able to do it.

Trolololol. Yes. Why would you want to add one hexing. I quote:
Quote
"As for AoP not thriving, there are multiple things that makes AOP not appeal to the FOnline community which I'll list a few
.....
No one hexing (surprisingly lots of people expect this but it won't fit in with AoP so they just leave)"

http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=3634.msg31982#msg31982
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 05, 2016, 03:07:31 PM
Those are other people, not me, I could careless if there is or isn't one hexing.

One hexing is pretty much a common feature in other FOnlines and people expect it to be in everyone.

And yes, I do blame it for one of the reasons why AoP doesn't appeal to other players. Sorry to poop on your parade Teela :(

Go back to make snow dicks or whatever
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Teela on December 05, 2016, 04:24:03 PM
I will. I´ll send you a pm when its finished.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Count Matthew on December 05, 2016, 04:47:53 PM
Those are other people, not me, I could careless if there is or isn't one hexing.

One hexing is pretty much a common feature in other FOnlines and people expect it to be in everyone.

And yes, I do blame it for one of the reasons why AoP doesn't appeal to other players. Sorry to poop on your parade Teela :(

Go back to make snow dicks or whatever

*Couldn't care less*
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: clochard on December 05, 2016, 05:09:16 PM
Quote
RUDE, I took educated on all my builds, helped me achieved 250% Weapon, 200% 2ndary and 180% 3rd.

As for the SPECIAL bonus, keep in mind that this guy is choosing a perk out of others he can choose. I'd rather take +2 EN instead of that critical endurance perk, etc.

well i heard other people did it too but i don't see the point of having more than 225 weapons skill sometimes, for me at least...i only used educated for sneaking purpuse benises.

then: what's the point of having hawk eyes/sharpshooter or man of steel asses perks if you can just have +2pe or +2 luck?
Same goes for crit res: you take +2 (any special with ALL benefits) vs +3special*5 crit res.

so yes, better take this +2 special because its better than any other perks you can have.


Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 05, 2016, 06:31:49 PM
One of them didn't even work, I believe it was sharpshooter. As for hawkeyes, perhaps make it appeal instead of just sight range, maybe 5 more eff. range?

but if it's just 1 point, then it's not worth it. This is where perks need to be changed IMO. To what? That's up for discussion.

Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 05, 2016, 08:26:55 PM
one point is better than any trait. the perks cannot be more powerful than they already are. If one does significantly more, then it needs to be nrefed. I used hawkeyes because it works when using psycho. Only leadership could bring your vision range off 1 pe otherwise. I am using lisard limbs now cause I am too lazy to carry antidotes
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: RazorRamon on December 05, 2016, 09:29:59 PM
Some new perks are good

Some are completely awful jesus fucking christ what the FUCK
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Wire on December 05, 2016, 10:07:26 PM
Some new perks are good

Some are completely awful jesus fucking christ what the FUCK
Informative.
Imagine if only devs made somekind of forum topic for discussion... oh wait

Quote
but if it's just 1 point, then it's not worth it. This is where perks need to be changed IMO. To what? That's up for discussion.
I'd say having more active use perks (or any at all) would be much better than having a passive bonuses galore. But there's no point of me to suggest this. Too many people seem to have ptsd caused by Shotgun surgeon/Mosambique
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 05, 2016, 11:20:44 PM
I need my shit to work before i can test anything. the updater seems to be broken. I will be done with school soon and I will become a dev. I know math and physics. also, I am learning to program ofc. I plan on working from home again because white privilege.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: S1mancoder on December 06, 2016, 06:35:55 AM
And what's wrong with the way it is now? You're pretty much doing just moving perks from 12 & 15 to higher levels and vice versa for the perks at higher levels.

Now we have 8 perk group instead of 3, I dont think its any kind of clear or user friendly, as well as not particulary easy to make proper balance.

+1 for the fast reload, it's too weak curently, even for the big guns users.

It's level 3 now, also reload cost itself is abusable, so I am not pushing it. I see the issue but for now will leave it as it is until I can test in in more "alive" season, especially at lower tiers.

I like the current system. You need to make game simplier and those changes will revert everything.

I already said it but we are going from 8 perk groups to 3, it IS the simplification. I am not going to talk seriously about any WIP new perks atm.

Basically I wanted a feedback on rearranging (that is what it is atm), i. e. about level requirement changes on particular perks (and there are some significant changes). Also opinion on what  you think atm is OP/useless is also appreciated, but it is more related to  fine-tuning that will come later.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: clochard on December 06, 2016, 08:31:29 AM
-I would put life giver and nerves of steel to lvl2 (even with less +10dr it's till good, and thoose 20 hp not really that good to be a top perk)
-autonomous to lvl2 (it's a must-have for me)
-moving sneaks perk 1 lvl up each.
-i'm against "injury tolerance" it's too op, and also against "resilent" cause i don't want to see some new bleeding psycho users meta.


Also:


Quote
I will. I´ll send you a pm when its finished.
me too please, i love snow and penises, could we call them about sownises or penisnows?


Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: SnowCrash on December 06, 2016, 08:32:10 AM
IMO the rearrangement in 3 tiers its a good idea, it will help balancing perks and design builds. For simplicity i dont see much of an issue, fallout players are used to have different lvl requirements so at least for me that is not a big deal. But it can help development and builds diversity

Venomous hands could be moved to the +12 category. in current season you can take venomous+BroF+Silent Hill Death. (Or move SHD as it was nerfed to only affect crits?)

Have ho! the effect will be negated if you have 150 or more in the throwing skill? why not make something like: you get +3(4?) ST for purposes of determining range, speed and damage (melee damage for throwing spears) for throwing weapons
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: RazorRamon on December 06, 2016, 10:09:18 AM
Some new perks are good

Some are completely awful jesus fucking christ what the FUCK
Informative.
Imagine if only devs made somekind of forum topic for discussion... oh wait

Imagine if only there was a googledoc posted with the perks and i commented in there already
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: John Porno on December 06, 2016, 10:57:03 AM
Have ho! the effect will be negated if you have 150 or more in the throwing skill? why not make something like: you get +3(4?) ST for purposes of determining range, speed and damage (melee damage for throwing spears) for throwing weapons
Heave-ho is designed for people who cant work throwing skill into their build yet want to be able to use grenades for more than just smoking yourself. It's not supposed to make dedicated grenadiers even better.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: S1mancoder on December 06, 2016, 12:50:33 PM
-i'm against "injury tolerance" it's too op

Have you calculated damage reduction for hits like 50/100/200/300 to 300 HP char to check what effect this perk does?
Or simply - have you done the math before you became sure its OP?
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 06, 2016, 01:17:52 PM
take out finesse? it seems useless to me. who wants to do 30 less damage? ...I love this idea. it is a perfectly legit simplification, especially since players will not be spending time on lvls 1-24, right?
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: FuckYou on December 06, 2016, 01:39:04 PM
take out finesse? it seems useless to me. who wants to do 30 less damage? ...I love this idea. it is a perfectly legit simplification, especially since players will not be spending time on lvls 1-24, right?
isnt finesse trait not perk?
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 06, 2016, 02:24:37 PM
yes and i just thought maybe you can crit with the HP+ needles .. in which case i imagine finesse would be added cuteness.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 06, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
Now we have 8 perk group instead of 3, I dont think its any kind of clear or user friendly, as well as not particulary easy to make proper balance.

Well it isn't clear because nobody has ever listed requirements of what's needed for the perk, or what exactly the perk does. And I don't see these "8 perk groups" now you're just confusing me.

But if you're gonna do this 3 category thing, more isn't needed IMO.

take out finesse? it seems useless to me. who wants to do 30 less damage? ...I love this idea. it is a perfectly legit simplification, especially since players will not be spending time on lvls 1-24, right?

Since finesse is doing something carefully, instead of making targets recieve more DR, something better would be like adds 300-400 ms more aim time but your critical chance increases by 10%, something like this. And if you have simian warfare, you still have to wait that extra step.

Heave-ho is designed for people who cant work throwing skill into their build yet want to be able to use grenades for more than just smoking yourself. It's not supposed to make dedicated grenadiers even better.

But grenades without perks = don't bother taking. Of course only smoke and inc. is viable since it has none.

Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 06, 2016, 03:28:35 PM
it is interesting, as my build has 107 throwing and I like to carry lots of no perk grenades (grav, stun, smoke, fire). Not sure that I would use the perk in my case, as I use only tank perks. I control equip the grenades, and I used to swing the mighty toothpick +1 pancor, which was super effective. I will keep trying to use the same unconventional build(6 3 6 5 5 6 9), because I have ocd. totally agree about finesse. first good suggestion by buttalker
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: clochard on December 06, 2016, 07:15:14 PM
Quote
Have you calculated damage reduction for hits like 50/100/200/300 to 300 HP char to check what effect this perk does?
Or simply - have you done the math before you became sure its OP?
-math are for pussies
                  Albert Einstein

ps: i guess for a character with 300 hp wearing metal and taking a flamer shot of 200 you can remove 2/3 of 20% of thoose 200: its still  too much cause you remove a part of armor penalty (i used flamer vs metal to illustrate) and power of criticals/bypasses but remember: i'm not a man of progress.

Quote
Since finesse is doing something carefully, instead of making targets recieve more DR, something better would be like adds 300-400 ms more aim time but your critical chance increases by 10%

then you just use critical strike weapons instead of using proper crit weapons to do proper cripples, ko or weap drops.

it is not a good suggestion, the trait is good in the first place cause it is not made for damage purpuses (also critical strike is bad in the first place).


AND YES, I DONT KNOW HOW TO QUOTE PROPERLY.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 06, 2016, 10:02:46 PM
reading this is triggering my ocd. really offends my safe space. do you even AOP BRO?!?
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: GaS on December 07, 2016, 03:01:30 AM
Heave-ho is designed for people who cant work throwing skill into their build yet want to be able to use grenades for more than just smoking yourself. It's not supposed to make dedicated grenadiers even better.

Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

Since finesse is doing something carefully, instead of making targets recieve more DR, something better would be like adds 300-400 ms more aim time but your critical chance increases by 10%, something like this. And if you have simian warfare, you still have to wait that extra step.

I think it's good suggestion!
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: John Porno on December 07, 2016, 08:36:48 AM
Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.
This is already partially the case, but it's an interesting idea, because usually it is the range that is preventing use of most grenades. I have never tested it with a low skill high ST char though.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 08, 2016, 03:31:58 AM
Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

Now this is just over complicating things, making people choose heave ho because they don't want to invest into throw skill. Converting perks into traits? No! If this were to happen, then what bonuses does someone get for investing into throw and using grenades? And then accuracy on throw skill?? So what, everyone can throw a grenade 3 hex away from them because nobody wants to invest in throw skill? I don't like the idea on range depending on STR, like what, I gotta be 10 STR + Buffout to throw a grenade it's max range? Meh

It's fine as it is IMO, wanna use grenades or concussions? Invest into throw skill, it's a freaking 2ndary skill on a server with no level cap. Better to add a trait to Smokes, Incindiearys, Stuns and Mustard gas so everyone can use. Which is literally what I mostly looted from dead V-Tecs back when server had PvP.

Heavy ho should just give grenades 10 more eff. range for anyone. Even out of the max range because it's a player investing a character perk into it, and there weren't many grenadiers in the server. If you even add it.

AND THESE NEW PERKS, WHOSE EVEN THINKING OF THEM!??

(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Colin-Farrell-WTF.gif)

Man fucken ay, now I'll just watch my old videos, I miss Komrade saying "Fucken pajama man" and hawks random screams xd
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: John Porno on December 08, 2016, 06:08:16 AM
HWOD ARE YOUA KAE DIFRRENT SOR SO FPERKS WT FIS GOIGN ONWTIHR FUXCKGIN SHITCVEDCVS
S1man and me discussed this yesterday when I brought up Gas' comment and we liked his idea with focussing on accuracy, however it has to be said that what both Gas and Stalker are implying here is actually how it already is working with ST affecting your maxrange with grenades and skill the eff range aka accuracy within that range.

And stalker, you are implying theres noone who wouldnt run a 10IN build to get 200 throwing in the end, which is retarded considering the variety of playstyles. Just because you really like throwing doesnt mean everyone else has to as well, there definitely is a room for a grenade perk for non-grenadiers.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: GaS on December 08, 2016, 07:55:15 AM
Converting perks into traits? No! If this were to happen, then what bonuses does someone get for investing into throw and using grenades? And then accuracy on throw skill?? So what, everyone can throw a grenade 3 hex away from them because nobody wants to invest in throw skill? I don't like the idea on range depending on STR, like what, I gotta be 10 STR + Buffout to throw a grenade it's max range? Meh
Lol ;D Did u read my post, Mr. No? There will stimul for investing SP to throwing skill for grenadiers - ability to pick Grenadier perk and good accuracy on maximum range. But if u are just fighter with 6-8 str u can use nades succesfully with Have-ho perk on mid range. For example:
1. I'm grenadier, have 10 str+buffout, 200 throwing skill and grenadier perk, i can throwing nades on 40+hexes with 100% accuracy without delays for put it into the slot.
2. I'm commando with assault rifle. I have 6 str and Have-ho perk. I can throw one grenade fast from util slot on 20 hexes before attack.
3. I'm machinegunner with 8 str, without throwing skill and without Have-ho perk. I can throw nade on 30 hexes, but with big chance to miss with terrible consequences for my team.
Just imagine it ::)

(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Fire-in-the-hole.gif)
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on December 08, 2016, 09:59:25 AM
HWOD ARE YOUA KAE DIFRRENT SOR SO FPERKS WT FIS GOIGN ONWTIHR FUXCKGIN SHITCVEDCVS
S1man and me discussed this yesterday when I brought up Gas' comment and we liked his idea with focussing on accuracy, however it has to be said that what both Gas and Stalker are implying here is actually how it already is working with ST affecting your maxrange with grenades and skill the eff range aka accuracy within that range.

And stalker, you are implying theres noone who wouldnt run a 10IN build to get 200 throwing in the end, which is retarded considering the variety of playstyles. Just because you really like throwing doesnt mean everyone else has to as well, there definitely is a room for a grenade perk for non-grenadiers.

Do you really think adding a character perk, would make people use frags, concussions, or whatever other grenade there is? nigga please, you should damn well know no one takes grenades unless they tag throw other than those I listed before. Even with this shit fuse, low radius, and high risk of missing, you still think that people are gonna use it?  :o

Lol ;D Did u read my post, Mr. No? There will stimul for investing SP to throwing skill for grenadiers - ability to pick Grenadier perk and good accuracy on maximum range. But if u are just fighter with 6-8 str u can use nades succesfully with Have-ho perk on mid range. For example:
1. I'm grenadier, have 10 str+buffout, 200 throwing skill and grenadier perk, i can throwing nades on 40+hexes with 100% accuracy without delays for put it into the slot.
2. I'm commando with assault rifle. I have 6 str and Have-ho perk. I can throw one grenade fast from util slot on 20 hexes before attack.
3. I'm machinegunner with 8 str, without throwing skill and without Have-ho perk. I can throw nade on 30 hexes, but with big chance to miss with terrible consequences for my team.
Just imagine it ::)

Sorry I cannot read on a forum's only form of communication is reading and writing.  ::)

1 - Elaborate on no delay. Grenades have no fuse timer, no travel time? What do you mean
2 - For it to only be easily dodged? Easily seen from miles away cause this guy has no throw skill and still thinks throwing a grenade with a character perk would actually be useful?
3 - Why would you throw a grenade in a first place, only grenade you should have is smoke, you'd be an idiot to use anything other than smoke.

But theory proven! Only takes 1 guy and devs go ahead with a shit perk no one is gonna bother to use. Just like sneaks and now look at the server!  Also nice gif of V-Tec in action, it's got the blue tags and what not.

Better fucken idea, don't make it a character perk and make it a perk you can get from completely a small assignment just like silent running. There you fucken go, now everyone can be throwing shit grenades with no perks but since you change all perks to traits, looks like I won't have to tag throw anymore.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: GaS on December 08, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
Sorry I cannot read on a forum's only form of communication is reading and writing.  ::)

1 - Elaborate on no delay. Grenades have no fuse timer, no travel time? What do you mean
2 - For it to only be easily dodged? Easily seen from miles away cause this guy has no throw skill and still thinks throwing a grenade with a character perk would actually be useful?
3 - Why would you throw a grenade in a first place, only grenade you should have is smoke, you'd be an idiot to use anything other than smoke.

But theory proven! Only takes 1 guy and devs go ahead with a shit perk no one is gonna bother to use. Just like sneaks and now look at the server!  Also nice gif of V-Tec in action, it's got the blue tags and what not.
You will understand all that i mean if you just turn your brain on :D

Dont play the server Savior role. Just give your opinion on this issue :)
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: S1mancoder on December 08, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

After some discussions with John we changed current miss algorithm abit to allow more use of higth str/low skill. So you will get no ridiculous misses for like 10 hexes at 5-10 hexes range, and overall if you arent going to trow for a precise point like window you can go even with 0% hitchance at close distances like 10-15 hexes.

And also as John noted above - throwing max range is already depentant only  on your strength, it is like that since ages.
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: twat on December 08, 2016, 11:03:09 AM
Well it is convenient for me, now, because my throw range and my pancor burst are both about 15 hex. I imagine if i was a stronger dude I would be about to throw a grenade further; I can also imagine a hulk looking guy who cannot throw well, though, that guy cannot run or fight either. i think if i was wanting to throw my fire or smoke further i would bring a grenade pistol...
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Teela on December 08, 2016, 12:06:37 PM
Good idea!
I have one more suggestion about it. We can convert perks from all nades to traits (not for spears). Explosion time and accuracy will depend on throwing skill, also grenadier perk will be available for char with 175 throwing skill. Throwing range will depend only on strenght. Then all soldiers would use nades but with random effectiveness caused by unstable explosion time and accuracy. For team safety and more effectivenes they have to pick Have ho or spent skill points.

After some discussions with John we changed current miss algorithm abit to allow more use of higth str/low skill. So you will get no ridiculous misses for like 10 hexes at 5-10 hexes range, and overall if you arent going to trow for a precise point like window you can go even with 0% hitchance at close distances like 10-15 hexes.

And also as John noted above - throwing max range is already depentant only  on your strength, it is like that since ages.

´critical misses´ with hand grenades do make hilarious PVP situations. Or maybe just make a skill dependent % chance to drop grenade on the spot buahahahahaha

(https://media.giphy.com/media/JRc2yskFGIeje/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Perk system changes
Post by: Count Matthew on December 09, 2016, 07:50:02 AM
Even with 200 points in throw, I still always throw grenades into a wall, just to increase the sense of panic.

The game is really taking shape at the moment with the daily tier weapon testing, which is fun and useful for the developers.

Log in around 6/7pm GMT if people are interested in these little tournaments or just check IRC for times.

It is nice to be playing for an hour a day :)