Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5

Author Topic: Sneak  (Read 37692 times)

cirn0

  • No Name Yet Team
  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 833
  • That's Terror
    • View Profile
Sneak
« on: September 26, 2014, 05:13:55 PM »

Sneak seems to be the meta and hot topic, especially with rerolls coming in, i'm seeing over 70% of ZC players sneaked for V-tec even.

I understand there is no penalty for weight or weapons.

I don't think its intended for sneak to be in this state, I personally don't like the whole invisibility system especially when we have made huge maps such as these. Hide and seek isn't the idea for large scale combat.

This is change aimed mostly for balancing sneak BG and Snipers.

For immediate changes :
- (~25%) reduction to total vision instead of flat 3 PE.
-Running with BG, 2-handed rifles will result in large sneak malus (~ 30%, 50% )
-Malus in sneak for just holding a 2-handed weapon (~ 30%, 50%)

Opinions and feedback are very welcome to help balance sneak.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 05:40:19 PM by cirn0 »
Logged
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FEATURES! YOU'LL REGRET THIS!

Denergar

  • Wanderer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2014, 05:45:29 PM »

Everything is good with sneak. Nerf DSR .50.
Logged

3.14

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2014, 05:48:10 PM »

With 200 sneak, near a wall, in leather jacket one is invisible even to a sniper with max PE at ~30 (20?) hex. With -50 to sneak that would shift the detect distance to 40-ish? If so then a sneaker can still have his victim in weapon range using a heavy gun and vanish behind a corner at will, or at least have the first shot. As we have it now.

Using a non-silent weapon could short-circuit the stealthboy shocking its user (-100 ap) and breaking the device... but then silent weapons would need a buff.
Logged

Niamak

  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2014, 05:51:47 PM »

- (~25%) reduction to total vision instead of flat 3 PE.

Might as well go blind...  :o


Don't forget Sight Range reduction for the sneaker, you can't see him but he also can't see you unless he has max PE and sight range perk.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 05:55:36 PM by Niamak »
Logged

Simms

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • CHEEKI BREEKI
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2014, 05:53:01 PM »

You basically just need to exclude DSR, AS50, medium machineguns and other heavy weaponry from being used in Sneak at all. The rest is fine.
Logged
It's all fun and games until someone catches an olive.

antohha

  • Wiki Editor
  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2014, 05:54:20 PM »

Without normal sneak it will be close to impossible to break DSR trains(10 guys standing behind each other with DSRs that kill you from 90+ range)...
Logged

Hans Landa

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2014, 05:57:19 PM »

Is there any other way to break anal trains of 10 dsr's besides using sneak? IMO the .50BMG availability just needs to be nerfed hard.
Logged

cirn0

  • No Name Yet Team
  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 833
  • That's Terror
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2014, 05:59:44 PM »

the .50BMG availability just needs to be nerfed hard.
Indeed
Logged
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FEATURES! YOU'LL REGRET THIS!

RazorRamon

  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 06:00:51 PM »

-75% while holding heavy weaponry
-50% while holding two handed guns
-25% with HtH weapons and 1 handed pistols/SMGs
+/- 0% with sneak based weapons

is what i was thinking of
Logged

Denergar

  • Wanderer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 06:11:25 PM »

To fix anal trains, you can reduce chance to hit/effective range/add critical misses when someone stands in front of you in 1-2 hexes.

P.S. Also, you can add ability to get in buildings right through windows via using them :3.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 06:13:45 PM by Denergar »
Logged

Hans Landa

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 06:14:29 PM »

Some other options:
-Eff range nerf while in sneak

If there is a player standing between you and your target:
-Penalty to hit chance.
-A chance to hit the player instead of the target. AKA critical miss.

Logged

Hans Landa

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 06:31:54 PM »

Also, if you plan a .50bmg availability nerf, a wipe of all ammo already collected in personal containers will be nice.
Logged

cirn0

  • No Name Yet Team
  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 833
  • That's Terror
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 07:00:30 PM »

Anal trains .... about those anal trains. I do believe they're in for some remedy.
Logged
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FEATURES! YOU'LL REGRET THIS!

Poor Ernie

  • Wanderer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2014, 07:24:44 PM »

Agreed.
Logged

baskila

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2014, 08:20:00 PM »

-75% while holding heavy weaponry
-50% while holding two handed guns
-25% with HtH weapons and 1 handed pistols/SMGs
+/- 0% with sneak based weapons

is what i was thinking of
Agree with Ramon. I don't think anyone else would know better than one of the best sneaks in the game.
Logged

Hans Landa

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2014, 08:35:15 PM »

Agree with Ramon. I don't think anyone else would know better than one of the best sneaks in the game.
Lold hard. He is melee. And his suggestion is all about melee. Why gimp a skill so hard that only one single class can benefit from it?
Logged

RazorRamon

  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2014, 08:43:12 PM »



Lold hard. He is melee. And his suggestion is all about melee. Why gimp a skill so hard that only one single class can benefit from it?

Because that's what it should be? A build that has a specific playstyle

Sneak as it is right now is just a straight up upgrade for EVERY weapon type

Edit: Now that i think about it, turning sneak into a 250% main skill would also fix the current problems of sneak being the must have secondary skill (250% being as effective as the current 200% detection wise of course). Would have to add a few more weapons for that though, especially low budget T1 options like the shiv or silenced pistols and maybe some high end T3 weapons too.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 09:19:46 PM by RazorRamon »
Logged

Hans Landa

  • Wastelander
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2014, 08:59:57 PM »

Because that's what it should be?

Who told you that? I believe it can be balanced around all playstyles with the right penalties. Making it a wakizashi specific skill is basically throwing it away from the game. But those "numerous" melee fans would be happy yes, without doubt.
Logged

RazorRamon

  • Outdoorsman Veteran
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 09:18:34 PM »

I believe it can be balanced around all playstyles with the right penalties.

That's what I was talking about in my first post wasn't I?

Making it a wakizashi specific skill is basically throwing it away from the game. But those "numerous" melee fans would be happy yes, without doubt.
Where did i say something like this? I'd be happy if there were more actual sneak weapon options (aka needler and silenced SMGs need some reworking).
Logged

Myakot

  • Global Moderator
  • Wasteland Figure
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1368
  • Eng\Rus Mod
    • View Profile
Re: Sneak
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 11:07:00 PM »

Well anal trains are countered with smoke nades I've heard.
How about implementing a utility-slot item, that would counter sneakers? I.e. infravision goggles. Utility slots are not being used by players, this would fix both problems.
Logged
I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together...
Okay, 3, 2, 1, let's jam!
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
 



SMF 2.0.2 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder - Theme by Crip