FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix
General section => General Discussions => Topic started by: Captain Chilly on September 26, 2014, 03:54:53 AM
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seriously, i've been playing since release and i've found SMGs to be the worst kind of weapon, no one ever uses them, due to the fact that if i wanted to use single shots from close to medium range, i would use a pistol and if i wanted to burst the fuck out of everything, i'd use an assault rifle
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All the differents smgs can be really good weapons, it just depends of the situation you use it : some of SMGs have a big DPS in burst and are really low AP to use. Also, remember there are different kind of bullets for most of the weapons, it can really make the difference.
It's just a "way of playing".
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smg is cool for science or something dont remove it
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All the differents smgs can be really good weapons, it just depends of the situation you use it : some of SMGs have a big DPS in burst and are really low AP to use. Also, remember there are different kind of bullets for most of the weapons, it can really make the difference.
It's just a "way of playing".
Lie.
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There is only one (kind of two) semi-viable SMG, and that is the Sterling and the silenced sterling. Other than that, the burst damage is not high enough to justify using them in place of any other weapon.
They are outperformed in nearly all areas.
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On this server SMG useless bigger then 146%(full auto and burst), say how member "p90 private c l u b"
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Smgs are....gross, only good one is RAD smg.
all others do weak damage for bursting, and I don't think I've seen anyone use them during PvP. Mostly BGs (cause they do damage) or snipers.
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I can two shot bluesuit with sterling smg hollow point ammo, so OP. :o
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Oh ah bluesuit is so viable thing in pvp :D
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I haven't used them yet but how are they compared to assault rifle burst in terms of damage ?
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SMGs suck so far - its like a bad pistol-assault rifle hybrid. Most of them lack power or penetration. I only use SMGs as thrown-away weapons when I go on Core runs, their main use is going at enemies and spraying bullets at their faces. Anything decently armored doesn't even give a shit to SMGs.
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It is the global problem about burst weapons (maybe i'm wrong, but it is how I feel it.)
Big guns are good, because of their range & suppression. And they deal good damage at good range.
The burst weapons have the same power wherever is your target, juste in front of you or 40ex away (as long as you stay in the eff range). Basically, theses weapons should be much more powerfull at short range (more bullets hits at short range->more dmg). But it's not the case. It's a choice the dev's made, I respect that.
And that's why smg's are uselless. They are outclassed by pistols/shootys at short range, because the burst dmg don't increase with the proximity of target.
(again, maybe i'm totally wrong, but i feeld it like that)
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I was running about today with a Walther and it's kind of okay against cannibals and bandits, you can deal about 200-250 damage with 100 ap to a single target at pointblank. The thing is you can probably do the same with a combat knife and a M1 can do the same from 40+ hex and a 1911 from 20+ (even if people keep calling it a colt - this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Army_Model_1860) is what I think of when I hear 'colt').
SMG would be much more useful if:
-the full auto mode would shoot 10+ bullets not 3-5 (smg have sometimes absurd rate of fire like 1.200 rpm)
-the bullets should start spreading about 5-10 (7?) hex away from the shooter
-no smg should have the burst range under 20, it would be best around 30-35 with the first 5-10 hex with no spread at all, and then the bullets can fan out in a 30-45 degrees cone.
...or just make them deal damage x2 and cripple random limbs :P
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About 150 dmg from hex to armed ca mk2 from hex will solve problem with smg.
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About 150 dmg from hex to armed ca mk2 from hex will solve problem with smg.
on snipers server say about one hex its moveton ;D
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It should be insta kill from hex but if I say about implementing it some people will kill me in real life for that suggestion :D
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I can two shot bluesuit with sterling smg hollow point ammo, so OP. :o
Someone with a Remington can kill a bluesuit in 36 AP
But that's not what the weapons should be balanced around
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So far I only found 1 good bursting SG. And it's not smg or assault rifle, they all suck hard. And you anyone here is judging weapons by tests on npc, bluesuits or random players than good luck... try against good build with good armor and leader buffs. ;]
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increase range. so much. minimum of 40.
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increase range. so much. minimum of 40.
Sniper-SMGs? bursting from 40 hex is a wondrous solution, how come no1 came up with it so far? I wonder.
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Assault rifles have 40+ range, and burst mode, no point in making more weapons just like the ones we have.
1hex -melee
2-7hex -flamer
8-15 -SMG gap
16-30- pistol
31-50- assault rifle
50+ sniper
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Don't forget light and heavy machine guns :o
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to the guy who said SGs are useless, i beg to differ, the M29 revolver is a wondorous weapon there's the CAW Shotgun and the Remington, along with a variety of assault rifles like the M16, the AK 74 and the FN FAL
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Assault rifles have 40+ range, and burst mode, no point in making more weapons just like the ones we have.
1hex -melee
2-7hex -flamer
8-15 -SMG gap
16-30- pistol
31-50- assault rifle
50+ sniper
Yeah that is what I thought, SMGs would be powerful close range bursters with a pistol equivalent single fire mode that is less powerful than a pistol in its own way.
I would like to see SMG bursts at short to mid range have higher bullets spent in a single burst than say an assault rifle, that way you will deal substantial damage, but at the cost of having to reload more often in burst mode, a bumped up AP cost and the consumption of more bullets.
To clarify I was thinking a burst from an SMG could empty a third or even half of its clip capacity.
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to the guy who said SGs are useless, i beg to differ, the M29 revolver is a wondorous weapon there's the CAW Shotgun and the Remington, along with a variety of assault rifles like the M16, the AK 74 and the FN FAL
If I'm that guy than I said "burst SG" and I still stay by my words. All SMGs' and assaults' burst mode sucks and mentioned revolver or desert eagle is much better than those burst weapons.
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Another problem since INT is so important for skill point and crit chance, you are better off with a crit weapon and burst/full auto mode obviously doesn't crit. :'(
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Flamer beats smg due to such minor range differences, and extremely high damage differences.
Pistol beats smg by Damage and range and AP cost and ammo...
Assault rifle beats it by all means for obvious reasons unless you happen to be close to it.
SMGs are not "situationally viable" in any situation compared to other weapons.
There is nothing good about the gun. More range would fix this. I only said 40 range. I did not say in what attack modes.
1-25 range for bursting, and 1-35 or 1-40 range for single shots.
This is hardly sniper SMGs anyways, stop being retarded. Bursting from that range would have so much spread as to do practically no damage. And aimshotting does so little damage it's only good for attempting to cause a crit effect mostly cripples.
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Once I said "1 hexing is not needed, this server is better". But I have to admit bursting with AR and SMG currently hardly useful. Probably it's ok with most of the AR being "middle" gun. But SMG being close range and low damage... need some rebalance
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Once I said "1 hexing is not needed, this server is better". But I have to admit bursting with AR and SMG currently hardly useful. Probably it's ok with most of the AR being "middle" gun. But SMG being close range and low damage... need some rebalance
Was just about to write that. buffing SMG's 1hex damage would solve the problem and make them specialized weapon.
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Hm... what if the Cone for full auto was simply widened some? Right now the cone is the same for all burst weapons. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement such a thing, but it seems to me that adding a few bullets per burst and widening the cone just a *bit*. Maybe?
Just a thought, haven't seen anyone entertain this unless I skipped it over.
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If smg will do more damage at 1hex then melee, then melee would be useless.
If melee will do more damage, then smg would be useless.
It's not a good idea.
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It's not only about damage, right?
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i just got raped by Sand Robe dude like f lvl 5 whit some shit handgun i head mp5sd he survived almost dead but holy f it was 4hex max range
SMG needs boost for sure
i was in Lather 2 and have toughenst
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Smg's should be viable weapons in 5-25 range. Some e.g. uzi should be better (nearly as good as melee) at hexing, some ( e.g. mp5 ) should be better at 15-20 range, but in overall those weapons could use some damage buff for sure.
Yesterday I wanted to check silenced uzi and mp5. Fortunately I've found single bluesuit in phoenix. I've been trying to kill him with aimed shots, bursts, even voodoo so i could catch up with pursuit and APs. He was FAing himself and after 4 zone transitions he stopped picked up a barbed spear and I had to run for my life. If I'd use wakizashi it would be instakill, with other weapons it would be a matter of seconds. I was using wrong ammo though ( armor piercing for mp5 ) but still it was a bluesuit -.-
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No bost at 1 hexing cuz mele can own you you shoud make it full auto to 5-7 hex all bulets hit and 7+hex start mising
Dmg boost too so at least can fight vs pistols
For me Uzi shoud get boost in numbers of bulets shooted like 10 insted 5
and MP5 needs boost in DMG per bulet
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If smg will do more damage at 1hex then melee, then melee would be useless.
If melee will do more damage, then smg would be useless.
It's not a good idea.
Style of play, totally different specials, totally different weapons etc....
It hardly renders any style useless. And nobody said more damage than melee, just buff to usefulness, you won't see SMG having auto KD with like 300 damage for sure. But buff in onehex that would make it useful in specific situations would help them to have purpose in this game.
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Just give SMG's bleed damage, or suppression.
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Just give SMG's bleed damage, or suppression.
supresion would be better but big chance
and +dmg or best thing would be aimed bursts
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i think bleed damage would make them interesting at least, and maybe some better perks, its not all about damage.
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How about more effects like winded and etc? could be an option as well
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Devs are ignoring us because they think their weapon balance design was flawless.
5$ says none of them use SMG's. ( and I don't just mean the one good one) but, "oh an SMG, I guess I will use this because it is good.
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And i think you talk to much i remember that i talked with johny in early alpha about smg and he said it was fucking hard to make smg do anything not op or shitty adding winded/suppression is good way to give it some reliable buff
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Give them all traits like limb destroyer x1/x2 and make it possible to proc the effect on random limb using burst
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Maybe allow one bullet from burst to be critical? or is it too much?
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SMGs are in a really weird place to make it unique and not rape melee but a close quarter weapons.
A simple band-aid fix would be increasing damage but then melee would be completely styled on and by design SMG were supposed to be a potent close ranged weapon with high DPS.
This takes some shenanigans and features. Like allowing running and shooting at same time, maybe then we will see some AP regen+ builds.
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Running and shooting lol, sounds op, hell walking and shooting sounds op. But it would be awesome if achievable, and like you said give incentive to AP regen+ which I feel is currently lacking.
Perhaps only allow hex-shooting while running with light guns, and walking will allow hex-shooting with big guns (not walking while deployed though).
Aside from the creation of an entirely new mechanic (and all the headaches bound to arise), a damage buff wouldn't go astray here IMO, melee is still capable of dealing 200-400 damage in a SINGLE hit (more on unarmored targets), unless you planned to put the damage into those regions I think melee would still be viable.
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allowing running and shooting at same time
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/do-want-cookie-monster.jpg)
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But melee could stil own at 1-2 hex range if smg would do comparable damage at 10-15 hex (not with one burst, but with 3 bursts for 20ap each, ~70dmg to a armored target per burst).
A melee hit with a powerfist is instant death (or near to), with a super sledge it's a trip to the other side of the map, smg wouldn't offer such options. This way both weapon categories would be viable.
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Well if you are taking in the full usage of AP into account, a melee can usually hit twice with an aimed shot with 100 ap, if not 3 times.
So that would put melee's potential damage at around 400-800, which unless I'm mistaken will kill anyone.
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Well if you are taking in the full usage of AP into account, a melee can usually hit twice with an aimed shot with 100 ap, if not 3 times.
So that would put melee's potential damage at around 400-800, which unless I'm mistaken will kill anyone.
Now take those numbers in consideration and think who has the advantage of shooting first, and possibly applying debuffs. (if you could spray'n'pray with smgs while running ... Oh god)
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Question only for developers. Do you have any perspectives to expand 10mm-using weapon(now it only 10mm smg, pistol and DIY)?
for example
smg
(http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/10/1470829ce0ef9c18aeb90534fca695db.png) (http://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=1470829ce0ef9c18aeb90534fca695db)
light mg
(http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/10/d2d0a266c8cf12bfd1c5befe36285b1d.png) (http://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=d2d0a266c8cf12bfd1c5befe36285b1d)
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Question only for developers. Do you have any perspectives to expand 10mm-using weapon(now it only 10mm smg, pistol and DIY)?
for example
smg
(http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/10/1470829ce0ef9c18aeb90534fca695db.png) (http://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=1470829ce0ef9c18aeb90534fca695db)
light mg
(http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/10/d2d0a266c8cf12bfd1c5befe36285b1d.png) (http://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=d2d0a266c8cf12bfd1c5befe36285b1d)
I'm pretty sure the mg takes 7.62x54 irl
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Question only for developers. Do you have any perspectives to expand 10mm-using weapon(now it only 10mm smg, pistol and DIY)?
for example
smg
(http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/10/1470829ce0ef9c18aeb90534fca695db.png) (http://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=1470829ce0ef9c18aeb90534fca695db)
light mg
(http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/10/d2d0a266c8cf12bfd1c5befe36285b1d.png) (http://hostingkartinok.com/show-image.php?id=d2d0a266c8cf12bfd1c5befe36285b1d)
I'm pretty sure the mg takes 7.62x54 irl
almost all Soviet weapons production use 7.62 mm, it not was hard to thinking
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yesterday using Rad Smg, i think it good idea for all smg - small burst(no bigger 4-5 bullets) in one line, range not bigger 30-33 hex