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[mAdman]

I gladly admit that some of the numbers could use some tweaking. Due to an internal mistake and apparently not enough motivation to go fix it, the applied boost calculation and its relation to CH was supposed to have diminishing returns, which it doesn't right now.

Yep, thought so. Sounds like that may solve the main issue.

Well if that gets "fixed" I guess we would have to look at the new 10ch values to make a true judgement again.

[Myakot]

@John, what you said about 'certain modules are countered by...'
As you've admitted yourself both poison and bleed are not considered a threat, while also you'll have to keep in mind that by switching modules to counter your enemy - you counter your own self. Since you'll switch off those stat crit and basic crit res modules.

Well, it's refreshing to see that you keep thinking outside of the box, hope we'll become to think that way also.

I guess waiting for anything is futile until next 'big patch'?

[3.14]

There's no (legal) way to tell what mods the other team has.
If I made 5 headshots and had 0 ko/knd, then can I be certain the enemy has +str,+agi,+crit.res. mods?
And if I know they have these mods (by magic), then what can I do if I'm playing as say a dedicated sniper?

[mAdman]

Hmm, that is a good point as even if you made 5 successful headshots and none were successful KOs it still wouldn't be a measure of their module selections, they could just have a high special and/or resistance.

The problem is how would you identify the current mods active on a player to others? And is that really something the other team should know?

I'm on the fence about that.

[paragon]

So what do you think about this ideas to balance modules so you can't change them on the fly, limit the effective range of bonuses and giving more space to assign special to nonleader chars? I'd like to have them all

- Activating and desactivating modules cost 200/250AP
- Leaders should have 200 leadership and 10CH to give full bonus, but squad members only need 5CH to receive them
- Leader with 200 leadership and 10ch should be X hex from squad members to give them bonuses. Maybe 100-150 hex?


Another idea to nerf them if you think that isn't enough would be to give the leader the current bonuses but reduce them 1/4 1/3 or 1/2 for squad members

What's the reason for the nerf again?
> - Teams making proper use of leadership should have a big advantage over teams not doing so.

Activating and deactivating AP cost will make leaders toilet-alts.
5CH for squad members to receive full bonus as well, also it will help to specialize in the same time as u

There's no (legal) way to tell what mods the other team has.
If I made 5 headshots and had 0 ko/knd, then can I be certain the enemy has +str,+agi,+crit.res. mods?
And if I know they have these mods (by magic), then what can I do if I'm playing as say a dedicated sniper?

Nobody said that all 15 people should be in 1 FT. Create several FT with different type of characters. And use them to counter enemy bonuses. If one group doesn't work good enough, try another one with different bonuses. So against anti-critical leader use flat damage / unaimed shots. This is team game, sniper is not suppose to knockdown everyone in one shot, some characters are better against some classes and that's there cooperation should be used.

[3.14]

I'm not saying we should see the type of enemie boosts. John Porno said that mods can/should/could be countered - but I have no idea what to counter. There is no tactic, roll the dice!

But I don't want a big nerf!
Just so that a natural special 10 is worth more then 1 + implant and the same for perks.

[paragon]

(edited my prev messages after you posted your answer... don't really remember changes, unfortun.)

Tactic is in proper FT preparation and in-battle awareness if your concrete FT execute well enough or not. I gave you and idea how to counter anti-crit, we can discuss on it or other examples.

About numbers of Boost Basic Value, there should be major testing going on to say if they are legit or not. I just enjoy current feeling of server balance and afraid that "nerfing this, nerfing that" will break it. Critical Special Resistances for me doesn't seem to be adequate, I even posted a bug report on it. But I believe devs probably have a math to prove that it has its reason.

[Anza]

I agree with the fact that teams using leadership properly should have big advantage, but it is true the values are a bit high. And again, why do so many people use 10 charisma, it is because atm, you have the bonuses almost all the time, leaders hunting should be something important during fights.

[clochard]

i agree with
-a certain cost in ap for changing moduls.
-a way to identify leaders:  but not with name colorising, it will be to much easy.
(i don't if you can be a sneak leader, but that could hapen to prevent that)
But a perk like awarness could give you information about that, like "squad leader" or "fire team leader"
displaying under hp or something.

[paragon]

I have to repeat again and again, making leaders being easily identified (I like idea about awareness) without introducing mechanics to make leaders stay in the zone of the firefight will make them all not-combat sneaker-like / full tank characters which doesn't even try participate in fight, but only hiding and fleeing.
E.g. inside the flag perimeter at Gun runners, FTL will stay inside the building and the only way to kill him will be to move through only 2 entrances.
In Police Department FTL will stay somewhere in the building on left top, where nobody ever walks around.

Thinking now I like the idea that LDR bonus could be shared only in field of view,
but there are problem with it:
check tick if FTL shares bonuses is about 10 seconds now, it'll bring random losing bonuses periods during moving through the doors, etc.
Making check ticks less AFAIK will turn in server productivity issue.

Did you guys ever try to change modules in battle? There's no fast button for it and it takes real time to open pip-boy, find needed module (my memory about where's the line should be in most of the cases), turn of some of which is turned on already and turn on new on.

[Anza]

I do change bonuses during fights and it is not that hard.
AP costs for changing bonuses and the SL/FTL info with awareness are very good ideas anyway.
And having some mechanisms to avoid lead bots in toilets is important too yes ! But it is understandable that a leader cannot perform as well as his soldiers, so having a leader not shooting as much as others and focusing some of his time into taking cover and staying alive is OK imo

[Niamak]

Guys, leader already waste 50 AP IRL to change modules... As paragon said, there is no hotkey for this.

(but yeah you could make a macro)

[Hans Landa]

A good nerf is to remove the ability to change modules while being in the Core. The bonuses you want to use can be selected only on the base and in the Core they can be activated/deactivated.

[Myakot]

A good nerf is to remove the ability to change modules while being in the Core. The bonuses you want to use can be selected only on the base and in the Core they can be activated/deactivated.

That's an overkill. CH has a mechanic, with a sole purpose of situation-adapting. Your suggestion will kill it, in a unique way. It doesn't need "nerf" it needs "tweaking".

[3.14]

A good nerf is to remove the ability to change modules while being in the Core. The bonuses you want to use can be selected only on the base and in the Core they can be activated/deactivated.

No, bad, don't want.

Ap cost is also bad.

Just trim the numbers a bit and all will be fine.

[Perteks]

Maybe instead flat bonuses make crit resists as % bonus of existing in that way 1 agi char won't be immune to ko

[3.14]

Maybe instead flat bonuses make crit resists as % bonus of existing in that way 1 agi char won't be immune to ko

Yes, good, want 

[nailbrain]

For example, if the enemy repeatedly uses +hp, +dr and +crit ag, they will not only be just as vulnerable to every other damage type than normal


like fkn what Laser is only 60ish range other type of dmg weapon and u know METAL ARMOR
plasma rad and electro weapons are total joke with ~30 range
so only weapon u can deal some dmg is scorcher but only daytime and flamers

[ZwierQ]

DR bonus should gave max +20/25% BASE DR for every kind of dmg, but it's just my opinion. It will buff all kind of armor without making some of them almost immune to normal dmg.