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Author Topic: Sneak  (Read 37684 times)

Aco

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2014, 12:36:13 AM »

I think one of big problem withs sneaks is the fact that they can deploy their weapon on sneak and just camp.

So Imo - Deploying should not be allowed for sneaks. This would disable DSR sneaks. Also PKS sneaks would be effected by this.

But yes, I like the idea of having goggles that help find sneakers - Better FoV for sneakers in front. But still very bad from back.
If you ask me, I think melee trolls should be nerfed most.

But at the moment I'm seeing wayy to much V-tech sneakers making these lineups in sneak and uncovering and killing everyone.
When John porno told me about sneaks in thsi server before it was released I told him this would happen. He said It would be considered a tactic for most small teams. But like I said. Its like a troll feature that ruins pvp.

But like john porno said once... if you are heavy geared and u turn off sneak u have higher chance to be bypassed or killed easier, Not sure how, But if it isnt like this it should be. :P

Second solution I have would be to not count people on sneak as ZC timer. I know this is complex cuz people can just run in off sneak (Get vtech score 1) then turn on sneak and fight.

Third Solution would be to make Stealthboys die out faster if other sneakers are looking at you. (Harder to organize a team of sneakers when ur stealthboy dies in less then 2 minutes of having 8 sneakers looking at you. or such. (Would need edits)

About Penaltys to having BG in hand That would not be a big deal. People would just put them in other hand and pull out when needed to shoot (Done in FOnline:Reloaded) But It only puts a huge cap between pro players and noob players when it comes to playing sneak so I think its a bad idea. Also If they nerfed ability to put weapon in other hand then they would just put it in inventory. then pull out when needed. aka not a big deal and same as before (Gap between pro and noob)

4th solution, If you shoot with a sneaker DSR50 - PKS you automaticly become Surpressed. And cant run for next 3-4 seconds. Decent solution In combined with first solution.

But I really think sneakers are fine. But when I see masive 10+ sneakers with bg's in zc its just bad. Perhaps make it so if u are 3hex from another sneaker u have -15% sneak ? Would make sense. If you beside 2 sneakers its -30% sneak on all sneaks
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Myakot

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2014, 12:57:03 AM »

Will the mechanic TLA had be viable here?
Mechanic:
Sneak is penaltied by the item that has the most "volume" in your INVENTORY (not in hands, mind you).
Example: power armours, 2h BG had 5-6 volume (which basically meant that if you have those in your inventory\equipped, your sneak will be penaltied by more than 80% of it's efficiency.)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 03:05:40 AM by Myakot »
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2014, 03:00:08 AM »

So i can carry a dsr in my off hand or in my bag and just whip it on and off between stealthing to bypass this?

Seems weird to punish them for what is in their hands at the time, that can change in a split second.

Why not malus stealth dependent on inventory weight, that way someone can't just loot every corpse in a 5 mile radius while stealthed with no danger to themself, and people can't troll the mechanic by hiding their gun in bag etc.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 03:23:37 AM by mAdman »
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2014, 06:04:03 AM »

-sneak penalties depending on weapon type and changing weapons unsneaks you

should solve most problems
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2014, 07:08:13 AM »

True, but switching say between fists and dsr and then restealthing after shooting is still possible.

Wouldn't it make sense that a man in light armor wielding only 1 or 2 light weapons and a stealthboy would be much better than a guy weighted down with 100 pounds of gear?
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Hans Landa

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2014, 07:21:22 AM »

Effective range nerf while using sneak+amplifying the damage recieved by the sneaker after desneaking, to add a high risk factor. Along with a anal train nerf, mass sneak becomes innefective and very dangerous tactic, but is viable for small groups. Your sneak penalty suggestions will delete a skill making it viable only for a wakizashi no brainer troll kills.
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DeusEx

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2014, 09:07:27 AM »

When John porno told me about sneaks... He said It would be considered a tactic for most small teams.

And he was damn right in this thing. Tell me about another more effective tactic for small team versus skilled and organized swarm? Run or die? Or make bunch of wakizashi flippin ninjas?

All of you guys just saw the nice played strategy, and got pissed off, because its works...

Listen Landa's suggestions about nerf that anal trains to balance pvp.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 11:06:23 AM by DeusEx »
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Clansman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2014, 10:05:07 AM »

Sneak seems to be the meta and hot topic, especially with rerolls coming in
You misspelled "heavy snipers" or what?

i'm seeing over 70% of ZC players sneaked for V-tec even.
Perhaps that's why V-tec can't do anything?

Just forbid stealth deployment.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 10:25:29 AM by Clansman »
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Seki

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2014, 10:37:34 AM »

btw stealthboy was supposed to cost some caps as devs said before release but its not really true because you can trade it for few stimpaks/bandages/drugs in bar so its like priceless
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Deathproof

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2014, 11:34:35 AM »

If you nerf PE then you'll waste the point of sneak, to observe,avoid and tell enemy location.

Squad of snipers don't even have to sneak to own you without you seeing them, there isn't a problem here.

Heavy snipers are ridiculous, sneak isn't a problem here.

Melee sneak - OP
Flamer sneak - OP

In general, I don't have problems with sneakers, I managed to find 90% of them. Sneaking involves skill, its not just pressing button and running in front of your enemy and clicking mouse. If anyone will mention snipers here, they can own you without sneak anyway.

About anti-sneak device - if something like that would be implemented, than I suggest player wearing it has to have high sneak skill as well. Because if you counter sneaks simply by having an item, and sneaker has to invest SP, buy stealthboy and is limited with an armor in a way than there should be sort of investment to make for anti-sneakers.

Or you could just make traps easier/cheaper and people can put bunch of traps which will give away the sneaker. Or some sort of anti-sneak gun, if you manage to shoot the sneaker his stealth boy charges are drained.

People don't even use hex shot, which is fun and good anti sneaker tactic, when you see door opening no one is there, burst a clip into the air, you never know.

Current AoP status in eyes of the players - nerf sneak,nerf snipers,nerf criticals, nerf aimed shots, nerf KD's, nerf BG,nerf EW,nerf Melee

And after we completely cripple the game I wonder what will be next excuse when losing a fight.
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antohha

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2014, 11:36:18 AM »

i'm seeing over 70% of ZC players sneaked for V-tec even.
Perhaps that's why V-tec can't do anything?
Or mb. couse V-tecs fight 10 vs 25+ groups?
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Hans Landa

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2014, 12:38:25 PM »

Heavy snipers are ridiculous, sneak isn't a problem here.
Agreed. Sneak is easilly countered by high sight range or other sneakers guarding your group, you dont need to nerf anything if .50bmg availability is lowered hard.
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Poor Ernie

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2014, 12:56:13 PM »

i'm seeing over 70% of ZC players sneaked for V-tec even.
Perhaps that's why V-tec can't do anything?
Or mb. couse V-tecs fight 10 vs 25+ groups?

V-tech is the second largest faction, they shouldn't have much issues.
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Hans Landa

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2014, 03:06:24 PM »

V-tech is the second largest faction
Only on paper.
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Perteks

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2014, 04:03:53 PM »

Sneak only with 1hd weapon - problem solved
All items in eq count too
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Deathproof

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2014, 05:14:46 PM »

Sneak only with 1hd weapon - problem solved
All items in eq count too

Most elegant solution I heard so far
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2014, 05:24:32 PM »

Yeah that would work too

should only count the weps in your 2 active slots though
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2014, 03:34:15 AM »

You could also go with a little bit more variety with sneak weapons, suppressed assault rifle a sneak energy weapon and even a silenced SVD or the like, and punish sneakers who don't use a sneak weapon.

For example using a non sneak weapon "reveals" you for 15 seconds, in which you cannot restealth, or perhaps trying to shoot a non stealth weapon while stealthed would cost double ap, making it impossible to shoot some weapons without desneaking first.

The stealth weapons would of course be less damaging than their not so sneaky counterparts, but the ability to use them while stealthed is their strength.
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The Brazilian Slaughter

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2014, 04:52:19 AM »

Well anal trains are countered with smoke nades I've heard.
How about implementing a utility-slot item, that would counter sneakers? I.e. infravision goggles. Utility slots are not being used by players, this would fix both problems.

Good idea.

What about using motion sensor?
Could make it so motion sensor is used as a item on hand and you NEED to keep it on hand to see a map of people on movement (so you can't fight while looking at the motion sensor). I like the idea of having a designated sensor player who stays on the back reporting on enemy movements and telling you where to shoot sneaks, etc. Could be a nice thing for leaders to do, one idea is to make it require leadership to use. Might be a little cheesy tho.

I would make it use small energy cells, too. Lots of 'em.

Another sneak counter-measure could be... paint. Essentially, thrown something that explodes into a bunch of paint flying in all directions like a 'nade, invisible sneaker dude gets revealed if hit.
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Myakot

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Re: Sneak
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2014, 09:40:41 AM »

How about some throwing item, but something that stays on the ground? Like a torch or something. Paint is good, but I doubt it'd be possible to hit soneo wit it :)
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together...
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