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[paragon]

then probably you're doing it wrong, it doesn't mean that the server has to change.

[PusiteGA]

np sorry but i think you not right i newer got killed by mele char

[naossano]

Basically, everyone is complaining from day one that melee and sneak are so much OP that they break the balance of the server, and you want to BUFF it ? What is wrong with you ?

It should be nerfed quite a lot if we want some balance on the server.

[PusiteGA]

wtf are you people crazy how if mele OP omg

[Anza]

Try to make one and you'll see 

Auto-knockback is too strong atm. Melee are OP in some situations that happen regularly, like in buildings, or behind doors etc. As long as you can reach your opponent, you pretty much win every 1v1.

I can understand the fact that melee SHOULD win if they can reach their opponents, but just see some scenarios :

1. Range sees Melee on a street, Range can shoot Melee to death before Melee reaches him, so Melee will just run away or at least cut LoS.
2. Melee tries to ambush Range in a building, Range sees Melee close to him and decides to run away. Why should Melee be able to be faster and kill him ?

The thing is, if Range and Melee are far, Range wins but Melee can run away. If Range and Melee are close, AND if Range has not the adequate equipment (like shotgun/mirkor for example), Melee wins but Range can run away. Why do you want to change that ?

[naossano]

wtf are you people crazy how if mele OP omg

In 99% of the fight, the melee send his opponement sleeping in the first blow. Basically, the opponement is good as dead as he can do nothing from the ground. Half a second later, he receive a second blow that deliver more than 300 damage (sometime even 700).

There is no fight. The guy basically can instant kill everyone it reaches. Couple that with sneak and you don't even see the guy coming, even in open ground.

Unless you play a melee sneak and enjoy cheating/trolling, there is no way anyone can say those characters aren't OP.

Especially considering the fact that they are cheap and they are the only one who instant kill. Not only it is OP, but break one of the good things about the server. As most chars don't instant kill, fights last longer and are enjoyable for both side. Even when you lose most of the time, you still glad that you had the opportunity to fight.

Tell me how could you enjoy a fight if you already dead before the combat even begins ? This is just a random death coming from nowhere, not a fight at all.

[paragon]

nao, you're not right. Melee is not that op as you think.

[naossano]

It is not what i think, but what i saw the last three month.
It would take a large amount of suspension of disbelief to think the opposite as what you constantly see.

[paragon]

http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=928.msg17929#msg17929

At this vid melee is doing 2 hits at 1 char and 2 hits at different char. Both times they are still alive. Nothing like 300 damage. It's typical. If you watch other vids, you'll see the same at each.



At this vid you can see a lot of melee action as well. Nothing like what you said.

[naossano]

Making one vid of a melee character that potentially screwed his build, or missed this one time, doesn't undo what happen the other 99,999 % of the time.

Do i need install a vid recorder and spend minutes/hours running around in the city expecting Ramon or Redrum to come in ?  Will you refund the stuff that i'll lose for you ?

Three fucking months of playing the game dude. Entire teams telling it the first weeks of the server. What else do you need ? Do you prefer the server to remain unbalanced so that you can keep playing superman ? Think of other players for once.

I hope that Anza could make a few screenshot with his new character for you, but something must be done to correct that known flaw, ASAP.

[3.14]

300 and 700 dmg with ONE HIT? Nah, I don't think so. Not on a regular basis anyway. It may happen from sneak attack if the victim has ~50% HP, but not in real life(game).

With 10 Strength, Heavy Handed, 250% HtH you can expect (vs armored/drugged/buffed pvp players):
-40-60 dmg with ripper (+bleed)  (5+ hits per 100 ap)
-55-70 dmg with supper sledge  (3+ hit per 100 ap)
-120-160 dmg with supper cattle prod (2 hits per 100 ap)

This is based on some ~40 melee kills (and about half as many deaths by melee).

[paragon]

Show any other vid on the forum or do anything to bring facts.
I just showed 2, there're many other showing the same.

"Entire teams telling it the first weeks of the server."
Balance has been changed quite a bit.

I don't play melee nether have any melee playing with me. So yeah, I want server be unbalanced, so melee rapes me and my team, np.

[Anza]

The damage Nao is talking about is melee sneak wakizashi (so not pure melee)
10 str Heavy Handed 200 sneak wakizashi you can land 200 + 350 (100ap) on a tank build in CA mkIII no psycho and it takes ~2 sec, the first hit has very high chances to put you on the ground so no chance to retaliate. The sneaker stays invisible.

The biggest difference while using melee is that aimed melee attacks are quite instant, while aimed shots have aiming time. So even with let's say a .50 deagle which has high chances of KO, it takes too many time to aim to a melee enemy who is few hexes away, while we can aim your eyes/head all the time. That's why I was saying you need proper equipment like mirkor or combat shotgun for example. Again, when you are far away from the melee you can kill him but he can run away.

One thing that could be done is removing auto knockback on Supersledge Swing, and letting it on Thrust.

[Myakot]

Stop calling waki sneaks MELEE. THEY ARE NOT MELEE CHARACTERS. They don't even gain perks from that skill ><.

[Anza]

That's why I make a differentiation between melee and sneak melee.

[PusiteGA]

Firs of all maybe auto knockdown is OP but i don't use auto knockdown weapons so i don't know
Second i just watch the video and i noticed they shoot rifle guys isted him whit hammer so he gets close thets bad opponent play not mele OP
Third if mele runs from you and enters room you are f imbecile if you just rush in (whit slow sniper gun, i got raped by BG mashguns 2 full about bursts from 5 hex = me cry) you can first snipe trough windows or trow f grande i  use my BG granade launcher to clear rooms before enter in fights

So basicly you saying Mele is OP cuz you are suicide freek
and about runing wtf are you talking about mele cant outrun ranged cuz ranged can stop and shoot criple or knockdown or wahtewer and kill him easy and mele cant so pls dont leave more stupid comments ( not trying to be offensive i just saying your comments are not logical)

[RazorRamon]

10 str Heavy Handed 200 sneak wakizashi you can land 200 + 350 (100ap) on a tank build in CA mkIII no psycho

90+100 damage on a real tank build with leadership buffs (even less with voodoo or psycho)

I can even demonstrate in game with suff, there's some characters you just cant kill as a sneak char.
Anyone thats always screaming sneak OP in every second topic can feel free to roll a real tank build

[nailbrain]

A sper uh i mean beer for the honest sneker Ramon
it is soo sad there are ppl dat cant be cheesed in the back

on the real side my honest opinion is dat melee ppl need solid buff/tweak
and waki must be usable by melee skill (same traits but maybe differen perks, i mean knife is knife but ninjastyle of use differs greatly from say ulfhednar)

[Anza]

Firs of all maybe auto knockdown is OP but i don't use auto knockdown weapons so i don't know

Yeah I am SG but i use 10mm gun, please buff SG dam 

Second i just watch the video and i noticed they shoot rifle guys isted him whit hammer so he gets close thets bad opponent play not mele OP

That's true, but not everybody play like that so the opposite is also right.

Third if mele runs from you and enters room you are f imbecile if you just rush in (whit slow sniper gun, i got raped by BG mashguns 2 full about bursts from 5 hex = me cry) you can first snipe trough windows or trow f grande i  use my BG granade launcher to clear rooms before enter in fights

I hope I am not a f imbecile as you say but where did I say I was running after a melee who is entering a building ?

So basicly you saying Mele is OP cuz you are suicide freek

Ok so maybe you can start reading what I said, it will help a lot on your comprehension

and about runing wtf are you talking about mele cant outrun ranged cuz ranged can stop and shoot criple or knockdown or wahtewer and kill him easy and mele cant so pls dont leave more stupid comments ( not trying to be offensive i just saying your comments are not logical)

Maybe start playing the game ? You can cut los easily in Phoenix, with buildings or by just going the opposite way. To cripple someone with a range weapon, you need aiming time (I love to repeat myself don't worry), so people can run away if they are not looking for a fight. Of course it's not 100%, you can be killed but it is far from guaranted if you don't want to fight. Same on the other side, you see a melee 5 hexes from you from a corner, you have a DKS, well you just run, why would he be able to be faster and kill you ?

[Myakot]

why would he be able to be faster and kill you ?

Can you run faster with a sniper rifle in your hands than an unarmed guy in a leather jacket?
If you use logic here, you'll lose either way, so just use gameplay sense to your advantage.