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Author Topic: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]  (Read 24441 times)

naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2014, 12:26:30 PM »

naossano
Swarm faction B can recap flag for thousand times and thus mechanics will be same. So no point in old system.

And faction A could also try to sustain guerilla, as it doesn't involve killing bilions, but be in movements, pick target at the appropriate time, then move again to avoid the swarm etc... Now, the swarm army just know that they will never lose.
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paragon

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2014, 01:31:19 PM »

And faction A could also try to sustain guerilla, as it doesn't involve killing bilions, but be in movements, pick target at the appropriate time, then move again to avoid the swarm etc... Now, the swarm army just know that they will never lose.

which one is swarm? I think v-tech? it lost like 6-7 battles during weekend with >6 people.
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naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2014, 01:49:58 PM »

The "now" didn't mean "when i am writting this message a 60 player swarm is taking zone X" but "As the server currently work, the consequences are those"
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paragon

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2014, 02:01:46 PM »

Now I've never seen such swarm army which never lost
Zones mechanics are too easy abusable for giving zone belonging too much value
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 02:08:02 PM by paragon »
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naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2014, 03:57:58 AM »

ZC system is currently broken.

You can start a timer with a lonelly unarmed bluesuit. Then, if another lonely unarmed bluesuit from another faction enters, then leave the map, it will end the timer and give you the zone.

There is currently no point in playing...
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paragon

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 04:39:32 AM »

The point never has been in capturing zones, but in ability to contest other players.

We had several fights during weekend in unusual zones / conditions, thanks to new ZC system.

But don't worry, it will be changed giving more value and sense for capping. Soon.
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lvhoang

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 06:48:50 AM »

yeah rthe Zones themselves dont really matter. Being able to make soe PvP and skirmishes does!

So far the changes resulted in a bit more battles, yay!
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naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 09:21:08 AM »

The point never has been in capturing zones, but in ability to contest other players.
.

The goal of the four factions is to take over Phoenix by fighting for the zones.

By taking a zone in a second with two characters, the fight is rendered useless and the act of capturing zones is rendered meaningless. If fighting is useless and capturing zones meaningless, AOP just become a sandbox games, in which nothing matter, in which you are given no purpose, no challenge, no endgoal.

It also have the unfortunate consequence of giving every scavenger position on the maps.
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Anza

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 09:34:34 AM »

I like the fact that it did add more battles, but it is true that there are some downsides

- every character not stealth trigger a timer, making a global radar on everyone in Phoenix -> Hello sneakers please come and kill me
- you can know where the enemies are coming from if they dont have the zones around the one you are in, by activating timer. So you can either be ready facing the right direction, or even choose to avoid fight and leave safely from opposite side
- taking zones in a second as Nao said
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paragon

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 10:30:56 AM »

> The goal of the four factions is to take over Phoenix by fighting for the zones.

Bad and useless goal as it doesn't give you anything special, not even a feeling that it worth it anything.
Ability to wipe up factions.... may help ^^
Until that, server WIP and we are testers.
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naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2014, 10:47:26 AM »

- More/Better stuff in store
- Faction fame amongs the player community
- Guard in controlled zones that will protect the weaker scavengers
- RP activities in controlled/uncontrolled zones if the player community is high enough.
- XP/fame/reputation/caps rewards on ZC

Sure, there should be more challenge for taking zones, and more rewards when those are taken, (and more npcs to interact with in Phoenix) but RP wise, it doesn't change the fact that all player are the faction grunts (or Don/Overseer/farmer/high judge grunts) and the faction still want to control Phoenix no matter if we agree with them.
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paragon

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 03:48:01 PM »

Rerolls request +
No sense in my 10 CH builds anymore.
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BG Sexpert

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 03:52:07 PM »

Carry weight is trivialized by the food and leadership buff, both which initially didn't really have much thought put into it.

I'd like to be able to use item weight as a pro / con to certain items to promote uniqueness towards gameplay. By squishing extreme stat ranges, I'll have an easier time balancing things.

Same goes for leadership buffs, the range of the old system was between 1x to 200x effect bonus, which made it become pretty much binary - go 10 cha or go none.  Now it runs on a logrithmic scale which again promotes our idea of  characters not needing to stack or dump stats.

we logs now. Self-taught
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greenthumb

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2014, 08:06:00 PM »

Since to new system, but not final one, i realy like chess board providing global message monitoring all active faction members in hostile zones. Regarding developers plan to provide even indirect information displaying number of players in zone, i say YES.

This is my desired PVP arena.

But the otherside:
Where is motivation of brand new player joining dead faction to progress and strengthen it? No active old players, no zones controled, no goods at faction shopkeeper, no mentors but monitored core visits, makeing any newcomer a prey in core. Harsh. If not yet, believe me, this will be daily routine after next update.

While this is stupid withdrawal of realy nice update. Instead of training camp producing ton of lags, implement 5th neutral faction with HQ under current sewers. After reaching material selfsufficency, player should gain option to join one out of 4 factions. Dont forget current factionless players arent displayed in global message. I believe this can be done way, where it wont decimate number of PVP members in zone, on the contrary will boost activity since the newcomers will live in core. In the role of producents, factions members will become predators. Everybody is allowed to evolve.
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paragon

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2014, 05:24:38 AM »

> No goods at faction shopkeeper.

Do you think v-tech has any loot at the shopkeepers? xD And we have new players as well.

I do agree that starting the game became much more harder, if you have no zones. Should zones mean something? Yes and they help scavengers now. Should they be capped in 5 secs with 2 guys? No.

ZC system will be rewoked. And scavengers will be safe in own zones just as family is safe now IF they hold the zone which will require mixture of amount active players in core / pvp.


But now it gives me one idea: what if you know ~how many people in the zone?
1-3: no presence, Cirn, none at all ): / insignificant presence
4-6: low presence
7-10: notable presence
11-15: severe presence
16-20: major presence
21-25: swarm presence
25+: v-tec

It won't solve the problem, actually, could even make it worse (if 5 honorable family hunters will try to teach 1 scavenger how to pvp in the game, the 25 evil v-tec will know (by number) that they should go and cheat swarm those good people who helps new players).
Although you won't know which faction are in, so it could be just 2 factions fighting and not just v-tec swarming (although it will be v-tec swarm obviously anyway)
Same time it will make v-tec dumb and lonely, because you won't need to lose your gear while zone has 'over 25 v-tec presence'.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 05:55:56 AM by paragon »
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Anza

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2014, 06:31:17 AM »

Knowing ~ number of people in core is a nice idea for ZC fights but it will make scavengers too easy preys to sneaks but also squads. It is hard to balance it as scavenging is in the same area as ZC, which is good gameplay system but not compatible with core population infos displayed.

@Parangon : dont feed the troll  :)
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naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2014, 06:44:03 AM »

Currently playing in a faction with a low number, i would, of course, be pleased if i would continue to ZC, even if we would only be able to keep the minimum number of zone, for traders. Altought, i think it is important to have a minimum number of player to start timer or to contest.

It might be nice to have the following formula :

- Faction X has more than 12 players that are currently online (and have level 6).
- Faction Y has less than 12 players currently online (and have level 6).
- Faction Z has more than 12 players currently online (and have level 6).

If there is more than 12 players online in faction X, there should be at least 6 players to start the timer. If there is less than 12 players online in faction Y, there should be at least 50% of these players in the zone to start timer. (rounded down. if they are 7 online, they should be 3 in zone)

If faction X started the timer, faction Y should only be able to contest if they are at least 50% of them in the zone (so they could contest with 3 players if there is only 7 elligibles players online in faction Y). Faction Z can only contest if they are six or more.

If faction Y start the timer, any faction could contest if they have at least half the same number as faction Y in the zone. (Let's say the total of elligible Y players is 10. 5 of them are starting ZC. A faction with at least 2 players in the zone can contest it)

So we would keep the minimum number of six players for the faction who can afford to have six players available, while factions with lower number could still ZC. Although, those factions still have to gather as much players as possible in their faction to be able to play.

Of course, if faction bring more people than needed, there could still start timer or contest.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 07:19:33 AM by naossano »
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Anza

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2014, 06:48:42 AM »

But what if a faction has a lot of PvE players who don't want to ZC ? I know it is the goal of AoP but some people maybe just want to craft / do assign / dungeons but no ZC ?
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naossano

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2014, 06:51:41 AM »

I am not a coder, but could it be possible to exclude players which are in assignements/dungeons maps ? The server know which maps we are in, isn't it ?

Plus, this is a requirement of 50% players, not 100%, which mean that 50% of the lvl 6 players of that faction could still do something else or be AFK. It could be lowered to 30% if you want, but i am not fond of it. It have to be significant compared to the total number, so there won't be solo starting timer or contesting it, unless the total is lower than 3-4.

And it also exclude players who are lower than lvl6. Those should never be able to be counted in ZC.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 06:58:29 AM by naossano »
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Anza

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Re: 14.11.2014 Changelog [ WE PORT 4000 AGAIN ]
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2014, 06:57:33 AM »

It will be hard to balance it but I like the idea
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