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[nailbrain]

People are unwiling to explore the possibilities dat secondarie skills offer
and the cap of SECOND high skill for post 24lv development make things worse
i would like to see more active use of docs , trapers .... but players mainly drift toward basic dmg output or soaking
it will be more appopriate to follow the same rule as primary skills

p.s my opinion is dat we generaly lack traits for defining supportive builds
 

[Einstein]

This is like when i try to talk about the first aid and doctor skill importance. Al builds can get them, and build a doctor char doesnt mean a real sacrifice (So, the doctor isnt a unique char, that deserves a real importance). Same happen with the trappers: they don't have too much traps to work with. A trapper could be a dangerous char if we give him the right materials.

I think is a good idea have specialized traits after lvl 24. Here go some examples:

FOR DOCTOR

Zombiemaker: Requisites: lvl 24,  150 science, 200 doc.  (Effect: u can revive dead bodies, as a zombies with half of the original life, and they fight for the doctor side).

Heal Tent: Req: lvl 24, 200 science, 200 First Aid. (Effect: u can creat a tent where all the faction players can heal (but not fight from there) at same time.

FOR TRAPPERS:

More traps: Req. lvl 24, 200 trap skill. (Effect: You can create C4 bomb trap (to put on any entrance), the Hole trap (where the char stuck and cant move and fire for a while, and recive damage slowly), the incendiary objet trap (you can put this trap on an objet and set it to explode when someone grab it from floor)... and more, but now i cant think.

Taming: Requisites lvl 24, 250 outdoorsman. (Effect: YES! Now you can tame molerats, deathclaws and wathever u want!... with time and dedication, offcourse)


As always:
keep the good work devs, we  all love you

[Myakot]

Specialised traits after 24 lvl? You wanted to say perks? Also, any character should become viable BEFORE reaching soft-cap, not after that. soft->hard-cap is a way of bonuses, not something of real battle-value.

Zombiemaker: What's the point in that? You will revive npcs only (otherwise it's ridiculous) and there aren't that many of them.
Tent: If any it should be a very expensive item, that will need that amount of skill to use, but not a freaking perk. That tent would obstruct vision, therefore it has lots of uses besides healing, which is wrong (creating a wall which shouldn't be there).
More traps: it's not even a perk, those are just suggestions for trapping =\.
Taming: 250 otd isn't worth wasting a battle-character for that. (even if you can lead up to 2 deathclaws, which is too much for a single perk)

[nailbrain]

my point is dat second highest secondarie is the cap for post 24 development
and this make no sense at all (this discourage ppl to level their chars to get secondaries cuz they wont be able to get the benefits of maxed skills and this leads to unnececery alting)
by support traits i ment real traits at creation
like 4eyes more or less defines sniper , heavy handed defines close combat build, gifted defines troll build etc. 

[Einstein]

Specialised traits after 24 lvl? You wanted to say perks? Also, any character should become viable BEFORE reaching soft-cap, not after that. soft->hard-cap is a way of bonuses, not something of real battle-value.

Zombiemaker: What's the point in that? You will revive npcs only (otherwise it's ridiculous) and there aren't that many of them.
Tent: If any it should be a very expensive item, that will need that amount of skill to use, but not a freaking perk. That tent would obstruct vision, therefore it has lots of uses besides healing, which is wrong (creating a wall which shouldn't be there).
More traps: it's not even a perk, those are just suggestions for trapping =\.
Taming: 250 otd isn't worth wasting a battle-character for that. (even if you can lead up to 2 deathclaws, which is too much for a single perk)

I think u are watching everything from bad positions, and this is so bad, i guess.

Yes, after lvl 24, i mean perk, no traits. My mistake.

The zombiemaker perk have a high potential to be so funny. Not only u can revive npc, yet dead players (that could spawn normaly, back and see their bodys killing others... lol) The zombies can have high damage resistences, poor damage because they are naked hth... i dont know, imagine all the ways u can use it. And zombies arent controlled by player, the must be as others npc. The -fight-enemys-of- the- creator- point can be changed after a time, and then attack all players, i dont know.

The tent could be destroyed... Is a tent...
And about the walls tent... cmon, u can delimite a minimal space to evade that problem, or put 2 entrances on the tent...

About the traps perks:
¿wath is the problem? u get the perk and that gave u the possibility of create those traps. Just like the relics to craft weapons...

And taming is a great idea. If u do a taming char, mean u dont want a Battle-character in that sense of the concept. U can use others skills like science to define how much animals tame. And cmon... if u make the deathclaws taming enough difficult, it will whort the time invested, and yes, i think u must have the possibility of tame more than 2 deathsclaws.

[MARXMAN]

Specialised traits after 24 lvl? You wanted to say perks? Also, any character should become viable BEFORE reaching soft-cap, not after that. soft->hard-cap is a way of bonuses, not something of real battle-value.

Zombiemaker: What's the point in that? You will revive npcs only (otherwise it's ridiculous) and there aren't that many of them.
Tent: If any it should be a very expensive item, that will need that amount of skill to use, but not a freaking perk. That tent would obstruct vision, therefore it has lots of uses besides healing, which is wrong (creating a wall which shouldn't be there).
More traps: it's not even a perk, those are just suggestions for trapping =\.
Taming: 250 otd isn't worth wasting a battle-character for that. (even if you can lead up to 2 deathclaws, which is too much for a single perk)

I think u are watching everything from bad positions, and this is so bad, i guess.

Yes, after lvl 24, i mean perk, no traits. My mistake.

The zombiemaker perk have a high potential to be so funny. Not only u can revive npc, yet dead players (that could spawn normaly, back and see their bodys killing others... lol) The zombies can have high damage resistences, poor damage because they are naked hth... i dont know, imagine all the ways u can use it. And zombies arent controlled by player, the must be as others npc. The -fight-enemys-of- the- creator- point can be changed after a time, and then attack all players, i dont know.

The tent could be destroyed... Is a tent...
And about the walls tent... cmon, u can delimite a minimal space to evade that problem, or put 2 entrances on the tent...

About the traps perks:
¿wath is the problem? u get the perk and that gave u the possibility of create those traps. Just like the relics to craft weapons...

And taming is a great idea. If u do a taming char, mean u dont want a Battle-character in that sense of the concept. U can use others skills like science to define how much animals tame. And cmon... if u make the deathclaws taming enough difficult, it will whort the time invested, and yes, i think u must have the possibility of tame more than 2 deathsclaws.

All of that sounds incredibly overpowered and unnecessary.   Having ANY SORT OF NPC on your side to fight I think is gamebreaking. We all saw what happened to 2238 and Mercs. This doesn't need to be repeated.

Also, Einstein, I don't think you get where Mykarot is coming from. Your character should already be at it's full potential before you hit the soft cap. All of these perk suggestions are rather terrible, to be honest.

Zombiemaker? Really? Its makes no sense and doesn't really fit in fallout. 

Taming Deathclaws? Yeah right.

i think u must have the possibility of tame more than 2 deathsclaws.

You must be high to think this could ever be balanced.

Healing tent seems pointless to me as you could heal yourself just fine with Stims and Paramedic bags. If you have a dedicated doctor you're more than fine.

More traps also seems useless as a perk. Why would you restrict players from reaching their full potential with trapping until AFTER the soft cap? This is totally unnecessary and if you want more traps in the game suggest them, not a perk.

Einstein and Nailbrain, I don't really think you understand the reasons for the soft cap or how to specialize a character.

[mAdman]

I've always thought the secondary cap thing is mainly so people don't just dump intelligence and max their level before pvping.

And it works pretty well IMO, less jacks of all trades, more specialized builds.

But I agree that OD, traps and even doc could do with some boosts to make them viable combat choices.