Print

[Myakot]

Ehm... Those bluesuits ARE experienced players that KNOW what they are doing . You are thinking it the wrong way. Problem was that in the very first days they were more experienced then everyone else. I saw a couple of people tagging everyone to the assignments and just wait till they complete a quest for them or simply go scavenging in the meantime, those are the same players I'm talking about.

[wojciech]

I do not think it is a good solution. Experencied players are not more important than new one. Action of some player should not broke the game for others.

Can we try to forget about this specific incident and try to think at larger scale ? What can we do to avoid this shity situation in the future ?

Maybe take more time to explain the specific gameplay of zone control to bluesuit ? ( You know it's not obvious for new player that we do not open door in zone control, that we stay hidden , that we don't run & loot, ... ). I think a player that is well integrated (fit ?) in the faction will not act like a asshole. It is very very hard for new player to take active participation in this game as there is a lot of old players and old team coming with their own history and not very patient with newbies. Don't forget you all start this game once... Even if it was 6 years ago.

I still see some paradox when we tell a new player that loose gear that "Wasteland is harsh" ( Yeah, I heard that so many times ) but If a experienced player loose it's gear it's not normal anymore ?!? I do not think experienced player will take more time to get new equipment ( good gear and tier 2 weapons ) than new player ( shity gear & tier 1 weapons ) so for me the death penality is the same for all at the end. Being able to get it's loot back should be lucky thing not the default one. You should be happy when you succeed it instead of being hangry if failed.

In all case killing is not the solution and should always be hardly punished. Maybe a vote on the faction to indicate bad players could help ( they will go to jail if their enter faction's again or something like that ) and could solve this kind of situation.

Again, just my personal opinion.

@Maykot : We post on the same time so to answer you I quote my post : "Being able to get it's loot back should be lucky thing not the default one. You should be happy when you succeed it instead of being hangry if failed." I always go to zone control if I'm available and try to organize some if needed ; I never get my loot back once I'm dead during zone control ( Loosing both good armor and tier 2 weapons ) and that's simply the game ! Wasteland is Harsh ;-)

You re right...but I know some people who were playing on other servers. For example in my faction (family) there are scavengers. They are looting my friends and just escaping. I know something about them, cuz they played on fo2, so I know what I should expect from them.

I think that 100% organisation inside one faction is impossible.

Only one sollution is to give Your TS to new players and try to teach them a bit how to behave during ZC or help them getting lvls

[Poker-Jack]

So people are bringing up looters and scavengers in bluesuits as IF that was the situation that the screenshots I posted detailed... IT IS NOT, so can we please stop pretending that WindRunner/Joker/Gown are all great people who were just too impatient to properly handle a "bluesuit looter"

1)He was not a LOOTER
2)He BARELY speaks english
3)He was standing next to the leader of the squad saying: "Hello, whats going on".

Joker, stop trying to justify killing teammates because "you got impatient". And whatever I said to you, is ALSO irrelevant, I can call you whatever I want, shooting me and/or a teammate is still shooting a teammate regardless of what I said to you. I'll keep myself civil on the forums to help fix issues, but don't try and pass blame to me as if I dug my own grave for speaking up in the new players' defense.

You're despicably petty. Help contribute to functionality of the game, and stop partaking in activities that can detriment the population of this game.  New players are what Fonlines (ALL OF THEM) needs. IF not, the world would be bleak and empty. So start HELPING our friendly new players, stop being king-asshole.

[JokeMaster]

Then make a goddamn tutorial show him theway around, TEACH HIM ENGLISH, show him the basics, and then, just then come to a ZC not the othe way around. And beside it IS JUST A GAME. I died on my first 3 loot runs in the game, damn i even died at the tutorial zone. Right now i lost like ten CA of all tiers but mostlt MK2.  And coming to a ZC not willing to help but for mere core scavenging is IDIOCY.

Here the yesterdays log.

[Poker-Jack]

Then make a goddamn tutorial show him theway around, TEACH HIM ENGLISH, show him the basics, and then, just then come to a ZC not the othe way around. And beside it IS JUST A GAME. I died on my first 3 loot runs in the game, damn i even died at the tutorial zone. Right now i lost like ten CA of all tiers but mostlt MK2.  And coming to a ZC not willing to help but for mere core scavenging is IDIOCY.

Here the yesterdays log.

I missed the part where you WERE KILLED BY YOUR TEAMMATES FOR NO REASON WHILE TRYING TO LEARN A HARSH UNFORGIVING GAME.

Thanks for continuing to try and justify team killing. I'm glad you think it's entirely okay, and will make it easier for devs to make it a harsher penalty for your action. You should be brought down to 0 reputation, and should have to work missions to get it back. SOMETHING to make it difficult and troublesome for teamkilling.
-------------
Teamkilling punishment: Reputation reduced to 0 AND relics no longer boost reputation, this will require players to do a LOT of missions before they have high reputation again.

[JokeMaster]

And for your behaviour on the chat you should be stripped down to 0 with no fraction. I got several times killed by our fraction members and i dont whine about it. I repay my debts, have any problem with that then come lets settle it. I propose a revolver duel, like in the wild west.

A basic leather jacket + the S&W Revolver with a full mag + 25 ammo.

If you want we can make a score for example 500 caps. And no mather who wins, the oter shuts his mouth, deal?

[Poker-Jack]

If you want we can make a score for example 500 caps. And no mather who wins, the oter shuts his mouth, deal?

You killed innocent friendlies without cause. Not sure why you think a duel would somehow change that?

[JokeMaster]

For Fucks Sake mate will ya understand a basic fact that :
-i'm not the first
-i won't be the last
-tons of people do the same
-people die constantly
- In real world you can also die by a random bullet , who knows where the next psycho is.
- I give you a way to settle matters as for me it looks like you are hungry for a sort of revenge i give you a way out: duel me if you win you have your revenge, if you loose you will stop complaining about the matter.

[Shangalar]

Please guys, behave. Don't let a game make you rage and yell at each other.

This duel sounds like a fair way to solve your quarrel here. And it's damn roleplay

About these team killing issues, we'll certainly bring more improvements and changes to the whole ZC system. You just have to give us time to fix bugs and figure out the best way to solve it.

[Poker-Jack]

For Fucks Sake mate will ya understand a basic fact that :
-i'm not the first
-i won't be the last
-tons of people do the same
-people die constantly
- In real world you can also die by a random bullet , who knows where the next psycho is.

Did anyone see a "random bullet" fired in my screenshots? I saw MULTIPLE bullets AIMED AT MY HEAD...

Shangular... is suggestion forum for roleplay? I'm trying to maintain the quality of thread by keeping it on topic. Apologies if I'm in the minority for trying to fix a problem without making is personal.


And here is for anyone who FORGOT?

read the chat log:

[JokeMaster]

The quality of this topic is 0.ANd beside you make it very personal as you have the biggest problem in the world with it. You dont like that what happened, avoid such situations in future, don't create them, and maybe even stop playing the game then nobody will be able to PK you.
You accept the duel, or not?
Just beside dueling is a way of settling matters used by our ancestors since the beggining of times, if you dont like my terms then propose you own, or even better, Shangalar could you set the terms for the duel?

[Poker-Jack]

I'm shocked a suggestion thread is being allowed to be derailed into roleplay nonsense.

New players being slaughtered by larger more organized groups "just because"... well there goes the neighborhood.

[Shangalar]

As I told just before Poker-Jack, we're aware of the situation and we'll do our best to fix it as soon as we can. Meanwhile, there's not much more you can do than getting over with it. I'm sorry for the death of your friend's character, but I can't help agreeing that he shouldn't probably have been there in the first place if he just started playing the game.

[Poker-Jack]

but I can't help agreeing that he shouldn't probably have been there in the first place if he just started playing the game.

Well I guess if that's the stance of the devs what more is there to say eh?

New guys be damned if curiosity gets the best of you and you run into 'teammates'.

Feel free to close thread.

---

but to clarify: the person I'm defending was hardly a "friend"... just a teammate who was gunned down for saying "hello". Figured lawyers would give a shit about something like that if they're going to attempt some "roleplay"

[Hang-Lip]

....but I can't help agreeing that he shouldn't probably have been there in the first place if he just started playing the game.

Have to agree with this, if he is new, take him into the wastes, enc things, do missions, show mechanics, advise him on the use of cover etc. a much better way to learn than going straight to a ZC. If I was the leader of said group, i would have been very frustrated in having to stop and teach new guy ZC tactics while with the prospect of being attacked.

[Shangalar]

We don't encourage players to kill their team mates, that's ridiculous to think so. We understand how frustrating it is to be killed when you're just coming to help. However we also do understand the frustration of the experienced players when a newcomer arrives unequiped, not aware of anything going on around and just randomly wandering and looting stuff hardly earned by others. We'll see how we're going to solve it, meanwhile, I clean and close this thread.

[Lidae]

I agree with Shangalar that if you're completely new to the game, you don't really belong in a Zone Control action. If you insist on going, then you should respect what your team mates are telling you. If you end up getting team killed in such a situation, there's often a reason for it, even if you may not agree with it or even know about it at the time.

Now there may be cases where people get teamkilled without reasons or for bad ones, but from a development point of view, this is a tremendously difficult problem to solve. How to define when somebody "deserves" to get killed and when he doesn't? The extreme points are equally unacceptable. Disabling friendly fire or extremely severe punishments for team kills is a bad idea, because then there's no way to stop griefers, looters and other people who are not contributing but only ruining the experience for others. On the other extreme, having no repercussions at all for team killing would also be bad because some people would just go around massacring everybody. So we're looking for something inbetween.

Having played a lot of PvP myself, I know how annoying it can be when you are interrupted in the middle of a fight by some bluesuits or noobs who have no idea what is going on. If there is no way for players to remove them from the battlefield, the consequences in terms of the fight can be rather severe. And few things can be as annoying as having a huge battle, barely coming out of it alive, and then comes 5 bluesuits from nowhere and run away with the spoils. I can't think of an obvious or easy to implement way to handle such thievery, so I think being allowed to shoot them is the best solution right now. This is why there are no reputation penalties during and just after ZC for shooting players who didn't contribute in the fight (players with less than 50 score from that fight).

From a roleplay and realistic perspective it's not exactly optimal to have team killing as a measure to prevent such things, but then again, death is also not permanent, so there's that. We've spent a lot of time discussing these issues but we haven't been able to come up with anything better as of yet.


Anyway, team killing in most cases is not tolerated, but during Zone Control the rules are lighter, and there's a reason for that. I'm open to suggestions for how to improve the system though, and the idea of a sort of "faction voting" against some player might be viable, though it would require certain measures to avoid mass alting and bullying as well.

[Poker-Jack]

I'm open to suggestions for how to improve the system though, and the idea of a sort of "faction voting" against some player might be viable, though it would require certain measures to avoid mass alting and bullying as well.

I would suggest that a voting system be implemented in CONJUNCTION with a sub-forum dedicated to detailing evidence against senseless teamkilling. With enough evidence backed against a player and with enough faction support their reputation get reset to 0?

Devs could then be in charge of who gets penalized.

[JokeMaster]

Well for a such suggestion id say friendly PK body count.
 If you kill a certain number of faction members you have to face a punishment. But there we come to another problem, such a thing should last only a time like a month lets say, becouse of the friendly fire feature. That would be a good solution i think, but also hard to implement.

[Poker-Jack]

Well for a such suggestion id say friendly PK body count.
 

This clearly helps large squads like yours kill players without getting any kill count on 99% of your men. And you know this VERY well... your team already knows to take 1 shot each.