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[JokeMaster]

<facepalm>Here we go again...
Yes here comes out another issue,in such a case i would say the kill should be "split" to all those who shot at the target for lets say the last 2 minutes, again it would require a ton of coding.

[Poker-Jack]

It's very possibly a language barrier that prevents me from seeing exactly what type of penalty you're suggesting that a team split amongst themselves for 2 minutes.

If anyone can make sense of this please be my guest and explain like I'm a retard:

Well for a such suggestion id say friendly PK body count.
 If you kill a certain number of faction members you have to face a punishment. But there we come to another problem, such a thing should last only a time like a month lets say, becouse of the friendly fire feature. That would be a good solution i think, but also hard to implement.

[Neuromancer]

From what I see in those screenshots there is Khan Papa ( bluesuit ) and Poker Jack ( sandrobe ) lying, so basically they deserved by comming to ZC EOT.

[TheTylerLee]

Jack gets killed 10 minutes before the screenshot by Windrunnners group, he goes to scavenge more loot, shows up here, Kahn shows up also, Windrunner says leave gtfo without armor, and then kills him 30 seconds later, Jack goes off on him, windrunner shoots him, and a couple of his buddies shoot him, Jack dies. 2 days worth of arguing happens, Now here we are

[JokeMaster]

Jack has basically one line of defence : " Dey shot meg, they bastards! I want revenge! Punish 'em!"
You dont get the part where you shouldn't be there in the first place. Secondly you were warned to leave even a few times, but you started a debate in consequence of what you got shot.
He can;t just accept the fact that he did something he shouldn't so yeah Jack you messed up, face that.

What i mean by split is that everyone who fired a shot should get the penalty. For example char X got shot by A,B,C and D.  If every of them fired atleast 1 shot in the time of 2 mins before the death of X everyone of them should get +1 to their PK count. But after a month for example the +1 PK count should vanish, becouse you can't say if it was intended or if X wasn't provoking them too. Both sides are always guilty, and both should be punished. So chars who tet often shot by their faction members should also face a punishment becouse if that happens that means they are useless and don't belong in the faction.

[naossano]

The way it is currently handled is close to perfection.

You lose reputation if you kill a team member, except for looters/scouts during ZC, in which you HAVE to kill those guys.

Another improvement could be limiting the number of relics one character could give. Let's say you gave 50 relics, the npc would say that you brought enough of them and should focus on other tasks.

[Lidae]

What i mean by split is that everyone who fired a shot should get the penalty. For example char X got shot by A,B,C and D.  If every of them fired atleast 1 shot in the time of 2 mins before the death of X everyone of them should get +1 to their PK count. But after a month for example the +1 PK count should vanish, becouse you can't say if it was intended or if X wasn't provoking them too. Both sides are always guilty, and both should be punished. So chars who tet often shot by their faction members should also face a punishment becouse if that happens that means they are useless and don't belong in the faction.

This would be difficult to implement, and in the end I wonder if we wouldn't get a lot of whining from such a system as well. Imagine you shoot somebody by accident with burst fire for example and he then gets killed by someone else. That makes you a PK? A lot of coding effort to avoid such cases. Each time somebody gets shot, you need to store a list of all players who shot that person since time X, and then when that player dies, you have to run through the list and compare the faction of the ones who shot the player with the player and the one who got the kill shot... And even then, what if somebody tries to PK you but an NPC gets the kill shot? Then it wouldn't count, but it should. Coding efforts +++. And even in a pure teamkill situation, maybe you shoot somebody once to "send a message" or something, and then somebody else goes on to kill him. Also doesn't seem fair, if your intent wasn't to kill. How to measure intent from a coding perspective? I think if you can come up with an elegant solution to that, you would have a bright future in the field of Artificial Intelligence.

Another improvement could be limiting the number of relics one character could give. Let's say you gave 50 relics, the npc would say that you brought enough of them and should focus on other tasks.

I like this idea. I'm not sure to what extent relics are used to boost reputation right now, but limiting it so that you can't instantly get something like 30k reputation sounds good to me.

[Myakot]

Lidae - relics are WAY TOO EASY to find, I can spend like 10-15 minutes to gain 30+ relics, which basically means you have NO penalty by TK'ing.

[Lidae]

Sounds like maybe the spawn rate of relics should be reduced then. And/or the value of them (both caps and reputation).

[Myakot]

Sounds like maybe the spawn rate of relics should be reduced then. And/or the value of them (both caps and reputation).

You can trade them for caps? o0. Didn't even think it was viable, so never tried.

[JokeMaster]

Some noobs in lawyers ofthen sold them, the price was like 200 caps per artifact.

[Myakot]

Some noobs in lawyers ofthen sold them, the price was like 200 caps per artifact.

That's freaking awesome, I've gotta find that npc. I don't TK anyway, so all those free faction armours for me sounds nice.

[Stem Sunders]

I killed a team member once, I'm not proud and I appologised after (I was gullible enough to believe he was a "spy")

I found it way too easy to get back into the fold. I simply purchased 2 relics from a friend and all was forgiven.

My punishment should have been much harsher!

[BG Sexpert]

V-tec is literally FULL of members who wait outside of ZC in sand robes or bluesuits. Then as soon as the PvP is over, they sprint in and grab as much shit as their 10 STR, strong back, packrat, buffout, food builds can carry.

BlindmanBill now walks around V-tec base with a minigun and Lawyer armor, of which he's done nothing to deserve.

These people will watch you die as opposed to help you, just for the chance to loot your body. They may even try to body block your escape.

I have no sympathy for them. There have been more than one occasion when have outright killed a V-tec member for showing up naked to ZC.

[naossano]

I don't think that the relic spawn rate is that high.
Almost all of my teammate needed a few real days to get enough relics.

The thing is, after a while non of your team members need relics, which lead to hoarding them, and have ton of them. I might be interesting to create new kind of relics every months that replace the old ones, so you don't end up having ton of relics at home, an almost infinite reserve of reputation.

That and limiting the number you can give would make you more afraid of losing too much reputation. Not necessary afraid of losing any reputation, but be more cautious about which quantity. Or maybe instead of giving a maximum total of 50, you might a maximum number of relics that you can give daily. Let's say you gave 5 relics today, you cannot give more until tomorow.
IMO, it could replace all the other ideas.

[Myakot]

Naossano, I personally donated over 80 relics on the 2nd day I believe. Spawn rate IS high, or just make them give less than 1k rep. ( this number was rather high to begin with).
Anyway, before making any suggestions we first need to locate the problem, and THEN post suggestions about how to solve it.

[Poker-Jack]

Is an in-game voting system used in conjunction with a sub-forum thread too complicated to manage? Would also create roleplay possibilities for those looking for something to do. (If that's something folks want to consider).

But splitting up any rep loss between different people is STILL only goign to benefit the larger squads who have the men/rep/relics/time to spare. They'll only lose a fraction of the total amount of rep, which is wrong.

[xXxDudexXx]

level cap the zone's for zone control could be a start, but i see zone control  turning into smaller teams like we have seen in the other iterations of the game. These teams will be elitists and care for themselves only. at current i don't do zone control at all due to not having sufficient character to do so, but if i was it would be with small gang on teamspeak and to hell with everyone else faction friendlies or not. I don't think trust was ever meant to be given so easily