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Author Topic: A letter to potential developer  (Read 22943 times)

John Porno

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2016, 10:16:13 AM »

The problem with post deletion in my opinion is that even if youre just removing a number of racial slurs going back and forth, people don't know what exactly was related and some will use that to say that devs deleted legit opinions they didnt like and all that.

The argument that is often made on forums by its staff is that they dont want their own forum, which they feel responsible for and identify with, to be insulted by bad language being present. I guess it's partly about taking things personally, as well as being afraid that the general quality of the forum is going to degrade.

As far as I am concerned though, every poster on here is responsible for his own posts. The fonline/aop community is how it is and if this is the way they want to handle themselves then it's ok. Every time a moderator uses his powers to intervene on the forums, he shapes the community according to his own subjective views and to me, that is the same as censorship.

Spoiler for Hiden:
moderator (n.) moderator at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "ruler, governor," from Latin moderator "manager, ruler, director," literally "he who moderates," from moderatus (see moderate (adj.)). Meaning "one who acts as an umpire" is from 1560s. Fem. form moderatrix attested from 1530s.

So generally, in my opinion, moderators should only delete posts that are directly targetted at the forum as a platform, like spambots, off topic posts and multiposts that are specifically made to flood an annoy people trying to read the forum but we never really had any of that happen yet.
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temp

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2016, 10:31:57 AM »

Good post, Stem, you expressed exactly what I tried to point out by lack of rules.

To answer you, in my opinion deleting useless / out of topic or inappropriate posts is fine, as well as warning and dealing with responsible users, but closing thread just because there are people doing it is not ok. Secondary, leaving no message why thread is locked is bad. But it's really just a small incident which doesn't deserve that much attention. I was going to post in that thread first and format my message according to that topic, but had to change my plans and pointed it out as a good close example of what I was talking in the post.
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FrankenStone-MKII

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2016, 10:35:03 AM »

Better write books .... cyka blyad xui

Go away imposter, as for I am the real Frankenstone!

Spawn east sralker blyad

I closed the TRIGGERED thread. It devolved into nothing more than a shit slinging contest. No point to it. People want to share opinions on the game, and that's great. But maybe do it in a dedicated thread in an unoffensive, informative manner?

Up until now, nobody even batted an eyelid at the closure of that thread.

I'm all for freedom of speech and yes the internet will be the internet. I too have been known to shit post with the best of them. But there is no need for actual insults stemming from the butt hurt caused by sneks or whatever else might be pissing people off today.

I guess John and I disagree on this part. Moderating wasn't something I was given a great deal of training on (in place of a better word) Or even told what I am and am not supposed to moderate. So far I have just been using personal judgement. Which may be wrong from some peoples POV, but without a guide to it that's all I got.

Johns points on this issue have given me something to think about, and perhaps it may warrant a discussion on IRC for further clarification and information on how to conduct forum moderation in future.

Be passionate and give people your opinions, but if they don't agree with it don't call them a fagtard for example and expect things to get any better. It just adds fuel to the flame.
I would rather see people spending their time and energy on some actual real discussion. I don't lock threads because it offends me. (A lot of posts I personally find hilarious) I lock them because its no longer productive in any way and only serves as a place for people to try and insult each other over topics that arguably have nothing to do with the threads intention.

I We could very easily just never moderate anything. But isn't that one of Paragons points?

On one hand there would be people who say leave everything up and open, no matter its content.
On the other hand, some people would say the forum needs moderating to avoid that kind of insulting language and behaviour. 

I'm interested to know what parts Paragon refers to when he calls for moderation on forums? What actions specifically warrant moderation in his opinion.

go write books
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Weasel

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2016, 01:03:42 PM »

Hmm well on the other hand, i personally WOULD expect you to enforce your own rules:

1. General behavior
FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix is a game, and want you all to feel comfortable when you play or read the forums. That's why we'll pay attention to make sure that spamming, insulting, flaming and trolling cases will be addressed accordingly, with warnings or bans if required. If you're not happy about something, please talk about it and give us arguments.

Oh please, if that was true RazorRamon would have long been perma banned.

4. Bug exploiting
Exploiting a bug in order to gain any advantage - the easiest example being using a broken dialogue to get infinite caps- will be punished.

That was not the case....people were ALLOWED to keep their xp and caps/gear.

5. Feature abusing
Finding a new evil plan to smash your enemies hard is usually tolerated in FOnline, as the wasteland is a place for smart and cunning people. However, we do not allow anyone to simply ruin the experience of others.

Hummm of course you do: Sneaker teams

So yeah, i guess a lot of people expected a little something called integrity, wich was thrown down the drain for some reason.
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John Porno

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2016, 02:20:16 PM »

Ah right, those rules were written by shangalar 3 years ago, I never really cared about those and they never were enforced. Just like the wiki and a lot of stuff that has been said or implemented, the design focus shifts and stuff is just left as is cause we're too lazy to clean it up.
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Wire

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2016, 05:02:13 PM »

Quote
The problem with post deletion in my opinion is that even if youre just removing a number of racial slurs going back and forth, people don't know what exactly was related and some will use that to say that devs deleted legit opinions they didnt like and all that.
This is why I was going to make TOXIC COMMUNITY thread and throw all the shitposts there :7

Quote
However, we do not allow anyone to simply ruin the experience of others...
...So yeah, i guess a lot of people expected a little something called integrity, wich was thrown down the drain for some reason.
Does it mean I can ban you for trolling forum and ruining my personal butterfly experience? Buzzwords sure are fun. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Weasel

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2016, 10:13:47 PM »

If those rules no longer apply, then simply delete them from the forum. Dont try to make people think you care about respect and a friendly gaming environment.

@ Wire: Ban me for what? Pointing out an embarassing fact?  ::)

It's not like im insulting anyone or activelly looking trough posts to shit-talk people whenever i get the occasion. But when you see that 90% of someone's post invariably includes: ''your a retard'' ''fuck you'' and meaningless trolling without ever providing any insightfull information/opinions, why tolerate it?

And yes i know: It's Internet. But just because some people like being ignorant trolls on the internet, does not mean we all have to be. If everyone in your neighborhood started trolling and insulting everyone they met in the street, would you just go: Meh fuck it, that's the age we live in! Time to go piss off some folks!
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2222s1

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 12:37:45 AM »

The Butthurt thickens
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Stem Sunders

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 07:22:58 AM »

Good post, Stem, you expressed exactly what I tried to point out by lack of rules.

To answer you, in my opinion deleting useless / out of topic or inappropriate posts is fine, as well as warning and dealing with responsible users, but closing thread just because there are people doing it is not ok. Secondary, leaving no message why thread is locked is bad. But it's really just a small incident which doesn't deserve that much attention. I was going to post in that thread first and format my message according to that topic, but had to change my plans and pointed it out as a good close example of what I was talking in the post.

So in your opinion deleting useless & off topic posts is ok, but locking a thread to stop such behaviour is not?
I agree with you about not leaving a message explaining why, that is something I should have done.
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Komrade

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 08:06:45 AM »

Everyone who is blocking the butthurt flow will be the enemy of the state. (stem I am watching you)

Once more just in case anyone still cant get it, free rerolls is the best and most balanced feature of AoP, it is also the main reason we have currently pvp with 10+ players on each side even with the low amount of players. 
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Weasel

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2016, 11:56:43 AM »

Free rerolls is one of the reason there is very little action......When you and family are not taking an hour to all reroll, someone else is. After 1 hour of taking zones with no oposition, everyone gets tired and leaves. Whenever they see they are not enough: Teams reroll to sneakers.....wich means even less chances of having ZC started and even more aimless wandering in the core in hopes of finding a strander.
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John Porno

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2016, 12:08:16 PM »

30min fam rerolls top mene
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Weasel

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2016, 12:26:55 PM »

30min fam rerolls top mene

Lol, alright 30 mins then, but that's still way too long =P Takes me 10 mins to make a new char, join faction and get to 24. Then all you have to do is switch character whenever.
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John Porno

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2016, 02:08:43 PM »

People taking ages to reroll is not inherently a design issue of the reroll system. It's about people not knowing what kind of build they want, or something.

The much more favored solution is of course to level two dozen chars to maxlevel, as I did on 2238 back in the day. I Must have spent a good 100 hours on levelling there, actually. That was with the 21 levelcap and not even this level 99+ bullshit going on nowadays.
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IIKM-enotsneknarF

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2016, 04:44:56 PM »

1 hour for 5 min battle fam rerolls top mene




















































fixed that for you
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RazorRamon

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2016, 05:01:23 PM »

mods are sleeping, post menes










































Spoiler for Hiden:
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John Porno

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2016, 06:00:41 PM »

^b& 4 menes
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Vassal

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2016, 10:46:53 PM »

the server is dead. it isn't not necessary to anybody any more

six developers couldn't make the normal server. your award online of 30 people

shame
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Perteks

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2016, 12:30:12 AM »

Then stop posting on dead server forum, get a grip moron
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twat

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Re: A letter to potential developer
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2016, 11:22:55 PM »

jihad
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