FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix
General section => General Discussions => Topic started by: Scalesan on May 05, 2016, 04:41:45 AM
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Hi,
I would like to know what is the role of sneaker in combat, some of our people are sneaking around, but they aren't that much of use while fighting other team. They can give information, sometimes even dispatch separated enemy, thats for sure. But same character is capable to run in core invisble, without system message, just hunting down all lone scavangers in some sort of poor skill style.
I would like to know, if sneaker build is realy supposed to eliminate every loner in core without being spotted. Or there was actualy some vision of PVP while implemented?
Some factions are doing real PVP, like hounds, family or church, but others have few and/or unskilled players like vtec/brahmins/lawyer. They mostly rely on sneakers trying to outnumber some newbie, or doing some other fishy action. Is this not a problem in matter of game development?
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Watch some of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R.'s PvP videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PazkXNN5vm0
At least these sneak series.
I hope that answers at least some of your questions concerning sneak characters in group PvP
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In short, they can have a few roles.
Assassine! (get into your back and backstab/kill you)
Scout! (in teamfights, map control is the key!)
...
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Yeah, he is in our team, i see what he can do. That's what i mentioned actualy. He has to watch his steps, play smart fighting other team. Unlike players whos gameplay is based on "fishing". Just using spy alt in other factions, or scouting frequented spots for lone players to stab them from nowhere :D. They probably spend much more time in game than regular player, but still unable getting stuff on their own, instead they are feeding from players trying to supply themselves.
This way some kids in fonline2 are playing too. But in fact they just ruining fun for everybody else. They are unable to do real PVP for months or even years. Doing repetitvely this sort of fishy "fishing".
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They just instant-kill loners before they even see them, and pretend it is pvp, while in fact, they removed from those loners the opportunity to do actual pvp, as they are down before the fight even happen (from that loner perspective. One seconde before, there is no opponement. One second after, they are already dead. No pvp at all.), and then they post troll videos about themselves being proud of pretending to do actual pvp, with overpowered character, non-existant gear (compared with actual PVP character), and using the exact same tactics for the last 2-3 years.
Some of them dare to try to face small groups, which make good entertainment, but for the most time, they just pick up loners that weren't aware of them, and that might leave the server, reducing the overall server population. (although is is certainly not the only reason the server population decrease, it certainly helps)
They can have a role on ZC (which consist of gathering information, first of all), without being detrimental to the rest of server life.
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So they are doing it for 3 years even in this game? There were no attempts in development to restrict this at all?
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History of sneak changes is very long...
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I wouldnt even mind yet another sneak rework and giving them a more defined role. For example making them support only and giving them weapons that poison/cripple/knockout/bleed/mark a target in addition to the scout capabilities. Would certainly solve the problem of loners getting instakilled if all sneak tools only do indirect damage.
On the other hand, i dont think the game should be balanced around 1vs1 at all and playing a combat sneak that doesn't rely on sniper weapons proves quite challenging and fair in large scale fights.
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Well... Take watchtower if you are scared of those things then?..
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Marking targets or calling something like artillery support would be nice.
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They could still do direct damage.
The problem is the fact most lone vs combat aren't even combat at all, as it is over before one of the parties involved was even aware there was a combat in the first place. Sneak can still be dangerous as long as the guy in front still as a chance. (of winning/fleeing/whatever.Just let him have an input in the fight)
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They could still do direct damage.
The problem is the fact most lone vs combat aren't even combat at all, as it is over before one of the parties involved was even aware there was a combat in the first place. Sneak can still be dangerous as long as the guy in front still as a chance. (of winning/fleeing/whatever.Just let him have an input in the fight)
You name the problem, you dont name a solution
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Like realy, there is noob guy of lawyers running around with knife and cutting people like potatoes. I ll be back when game is fixed :D. GG.
Or hounds guys, camping at the gate exit grid, like a boss, wtf, this is worse than FO2 glow dungeon, lol. Add previews LOL
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Sneaking should be reworked to only be scout with the minimal damage output on battle characters. I mean, I'm seeing sneak squads running around with deagles and AEKs which are not sneaks weapons and just gunning down battle characters, the wakizashi and needler are too strong (something I've been trying to get nerfed, instead they just changed SD to so massive bleed instead which is the same IMO as before)
I don't even want to play a battle character cause seeing how easily one sneak can take me down...so I'm just forced to play a sneaker.
I'm just here, running around with wakizashi, almost killing people in 2 hits, 3 is a guarantee, 4 is overkill. I don't understand how some people argue that it's fine the way it is...players exaggerate on how hard it is to get behind someone with wakizashi, and needler is a nuisance when you're fighting, and sneakers shouldn't be running around with these AEKs or other shit.
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Add previews LOL
http://prntscr.com/b0kz5k
There are previews ;(. You just right-click instead of Lclick on the gate
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Sneak was always one of worst aspect of fonline, I would be happy if there wasn't sneak on this server.
Nobody no matter how exprienced can be 100% safe from sneak, this fucking invisibility spell is absurdal and with how stron hth here is, its even more lethal than other servers.
I would like to have some special anty sneaker thing what gonna disable or even shock sneaker into walking from 15 hexes or something.
No silent runing perk would be good too, you still can make something out of sneak but it would need to set some trap to use it offensivly not just stupid following and backstab
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I was and still am all up for sneakers being scouts/video recorders only. Even if they can dish out some damage, they shouldn't be able to survive the retaliation shots.
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Add previews LOL
http://prntscr.com/b0kz5k
There are previews ;(. You just right-click instead of Lclick on the gate
They don't work. Yeah you wee the map but can't see no players. One time I spawned on the hound faction but managed to get away.
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Sneak was always one of worst aspect of fonline, I would be happy if there wasn't sneak on this server.
Nobody no matter how exprienced can be 100% safe from sneak, this fucking invisibility spell is absurdal and with how stron hth here is, its even more lethal than other servers.
I would like to have some special anty sneaker thing what gonna disable or even shock sneaker into walking from 15 hexes or something.
No silent runing perk would be good too, you still can make something out of sneak but it would need to set some trap to use it offensivly not just stupid following and backstab
This and in addition sneak profession is giving fun to several people and annoying the rest.
Sneaker should be a scout. I hope You understand.
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I suggested Tranq rifle for sneakers duno why it was newer implemented, i think i still have link for thread in my Signature. That would make scout/sneeker a good support
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Well... Take watchtower if you are scared of those things then?..
I ain't afraid of no ghosts!.... I mean sneaks.
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There should totally be a sneak nerf/rework from the way i see things. At first i figured they should simply be removed from the game altogheter, but i GUESS they would be okay as scouts and video makers. (What they were always meant to be)
What is definatly NOT okay however, is the retarded invisible mass murderers of the X dimensions that we currently have. This isnt wizards online, and that ''invisibility spell'' on the sneaks is just plain dumb. I.E.: im walking around with a friend....he gets bursted by a sneak like 3-4 bursts in a row, i notice the guy, click him....aim-time aaaaand he vanished before i can shoot! NPC patrols also dont react when sneaks shoot you, even if your only 10 hexes from them....Heck npc patrols dont even react when you DO manage to shoot the sneak, ya gotta shoot em twice!
When the whole map is owned by hound swarm, and suddenly we get v-tec sneaks everywhere camping the gates, murdering all bluesuits that go to scavenge for no apparent reasons.....this comes to mind:Law 5. Feature abusing
Finding a new evil plan to smash your enemies hard is usually tolerated in FOnline, as the wasteland is a place for smart and cunning people. However, we do not allow anyone to simply ruin the experience of others.
Long story short: Remove the ''sneak'' weapon perks on all guns: Problem fixed.
Sneaks will once again have to show themselsves if they want to murder someone, making it not only much more tactical play but giving a chance to the would-be victim to do something. Instead of just crushing everyone with the power of mathematics.....3Invisible guysx3 burst each= Win!
*Yes, i WOULD leave sneak perks for some melee weapons, because you at the very least get the chance to see your killer. And also because it's not broken like hell*
**This would probably get us like 100 players back too**
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i GUESS they would be okay as scouts and video makers. (What they were always meant to be)
[Quotation needed]
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'' To be or not to be-that is the question.''
William Shakespeare
Happy Ramon?
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Nah im happy when you stop pulling opinions out of your ass and presenting them as facts
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Oh right, im so terribly sorry your majesty!
Fact1: Sneaks are broken!
Fact2: RazorRamon is the Lord of all Trolls, treat him with the respect he deserves!
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"Cant make a counterpoint in an argument? Better call him a troll, that'll show him!"
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Oh right, im so terribly sorry your majesty!
Fact1: Sneaks are broken!
Fact2: RazorRamon is the Lord of all Trolls, treat him with the respect he deserves!
He is low troll. High tech troll can make everybody laugh, he is only pathetic.
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Meh, alright Ramon, i got a few minutes to educate you:
I don't even want to play a battle character cause seeing how easily one sneak can take me down...so I'm just forced to play a sneaker.
#1: This^ Most people wont bother to make a sneaker, most people came here for pvp fights, ZC and the army-style tactical warfare that we see in the AOP pvp videos. So Most people will just quit.
You name the problem, you dont name a solution
I did name a solution tho: Remove the sneak perks that lets you re-hide after shooting. You shoot-> your visible. Your visible-> Gotta hide to re-sneak
Nah im happy when you stop pulling opinions out of your ass and presenting them as facts
Well, im sorry if my Ass is smarter than your Brain. You asked for a Quotation and i gave you one, if you didnt understand it, then you could have just asked, no shame in it.
"Cant make a counterpoint in an argument? Better call him a troll, that'll show him!"
''Can't understand what he meant? Say he's talking out of his ass, that'l show him!''
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sorry ramon but i am +1 for this
Your visible-> Gotta hide to re-sneak
if gotta hide = have to exit forward Vision (q) of enemy
anywey i dont think sneek op just people dont use watchtower cuz they greedy
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I like the idea of having sneakers as scouts in ZC, they have a solid role and usage there, but I never liked pure invisibility as a mechanical representation of stealth in any game.
I liked how Starcraft, the later Fallouts, and Planetside 2 have this sort of perceived warped area representation of cloaking. But since we're dealing with the graphics we have, instead of just completely removing a character's sprite from someone else's view, we could use different percentages of opacity on the sneaker's sprite. For example 5~10% opacity at full sneak advantage, 15~30% opacity at half sneak advantage...etc or what ever percentage works. That way it takes away some mechanical skill and replaces it with actual observational skill of both players.
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I like the idea of having sneakers as scouts in ZC, they have a solid role and usage there, but I never liked pure invisibility as a mechanical representation of stealth in any game.
I liked how Starcraft, the later Fallouts, and Planetside 2 have this sort of perceived warped area representation of cloaking. But since we're dealing with the graphics we have, instead of just completely removing a character's sprite from someone else's view, we could use different percentages of opacity on the sneaker's sprite. For example 5~10% opacity at full sneak advantage, 15~30% opacity at half sneak advantage...etc or what ever percentage works. That way it takes away some mechanical skill and replaces it with actual observational skill of both players.
You're asking for a lot and I think I might be willing to deliver
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wouldn't be necessary removal of clientside frame customization then? Or is it possible to add transparency to any existing frames without editing?
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Wouldn't that be ease to change with different model to cancel that or % visibility is some kind of ingame mechanic what can't be changed from client side?
Oh I see scalesan already asked it, but if Cirno want to nigger this out let him do it :)
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ty based scabs,
only person here that doesnt cry but instead offers a good solution
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Might be an issue with targeting though, like when you press attack you can see red outlines on everything. Have to make people with high enough sneak advantage have no outlines, but I'm on the fence about being able to shoot them if they have full sneak advantage - fair enough if someone is that observant to see someone at 5~odd% opacity, but don't want people just spamming attack on every empty grid trying to get lucky and land a shot.
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No silent runing perk would be good too, you still can make something out of sneak but it would need to set some trap to use it offensivly not just stupid following and backstab
I think thats the best way to solve sneak issues (other than removing sneak completely). That would allow loners and new players to discover the core without being killed by invisible enemy who can simply follow them at running speed.
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certain powerplayers WILL replace LJ with a 2000x2000 bright red box.
I vote for tesla armor randomly dispersing energy, deactivating all stealthboys in 15hex area. Then all noobs who arent gitting gud just yet can use that and I can continue killing sneaks with my torsospammers
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No silent running perk
Great suggestion, while we're at it, also disable running on everyone carrying more than 30kg of weight.
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No silent running perk
Great suggestion, while we're at it, also disable running on everyone carrying more than 30kg of weight.
If you are using CA mk2 or higher you fall down randomly......... no I'm serious, not being sarcastic.
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Sneak effectiveness increase with the number of opponements in maps.
If you are alone, your sense are more sharpened, as everything could be a treat.
If you are with buddies, you lower your guard and can't detect sneak easily.
But the main issue is still the damage output, not the invisibility of sneak.
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maybe make sneak skill derivative of one of the leadership bonuses. What i mean is necessity of team for sneaker to work. Still sneaking twins could exploit even this. This measure would require new concept of forced team variabilty, where various bonus effects would be buffed for mixed squads. What we have now is quite opposite, same bonuses are applied to everyone. And people tend to run with nearly generic builds. This would take long time to think insight, so i still recommend just disabling sneak ;)
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forced team variabilty [...]
i still recommend just disabling sneak
epic
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No, sneaks should play as loners too. I still vote for transparency that's depending on distance and sneak skill of sneaker/perception of "victim". No more magic invisibility, but still Sneak will be playable. Everyone win.
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And still will be wizard
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So....only transparency they're adding....oh well time to mod all jackets to frank horrigans....or giant squares :D
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"ramen's reply"
I agree, you are kul bwoy.
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Well, transparency will be far better. You can prepare for sneak, cause you will see him from longer distance...if you will be aware enough.
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yep no nickname also huge nerf , huge nerf ... prepare for fighting shadows in 20 vs 20