Print

[RazorRamon]

There should be a penalty or restriction for sneaking with weapons that arent intended for it.

As it is right now you can just grab a leather jacket, stealth boy and a Milkor and bomb the enemy mob in ZC for massive score (i know because i've done it). Or run around as a 3-4 person sneak deathsquad that all uses sniper rifles/laser rifles, calls one target and everyone shoots the same person out of stealth. That person has zero chance of survival and cant see or react in any way.

Sneaking with a knife or silenced pistol/smg in your hand? Sure, makes sense. Sneaking with a bulky automatic grenade launcher or a rifle with a one meter barrel in your hand? That shouldn't be a thing

[Hans Landa]

Maybe sneak penalty depending on the weapon weight?

[RazorRamon]

I was thinking more by weapon type and size, you cant really see weight in reality. For example, a power fist weighs 3175g and a laser rifle 4000g but one is several times longer and bulkier than the other.

Big weapons > Two handed small guns/energy weapons > one handed small guns/energy weapons > hth weapons > sneak skill weapons

...is how i imagine it should be to sneak with from hardest to easiest.

[catstevens]

Sneak is OP here in my opinion....wiht pe9 I can't see a sneak until hes very very close. With high PE you should be able to see them fairly easily, especially in open ground. And it's annoying to be shooting at one and have them disappear one theyve ran a few hexes. IMO sneak should be disabled for 30 seconds at least if sneaker is hit

[GroeneAppel]

TLA tackles this nicely for their evasion/sneak skill

In TLA, your effective evasion skill is based on the volume of the equipement you have equiped. Therefore, you can't use evasion properly if you carry a minigun, or if you are running about in metal armor. The same can be applied to AOP.

Alternatively, the effective sneak skill in TLA is based on the equipement both equiped and carried in the inventory.

Though, looking at the AOP playstyle, I think basing it on the equiped weapon volume would be the best solution.

[RazorRamon]

Sneak is OP here in my opinion....wiht pe9 I can't see a sneak until hes very very close. With high PE you should be able to see them fairly easily, especially in open ground. And it's annoying to be shooting at one and have them disappear one theyve ran a few hexes. IMO sneak should be disabled for 30 seconds at least if sneaker is hit

Sneak detection range is actually pretty big considering the range of actual sneak weapons

This is frontal detection range (24 hexes) at 10 perception vs a 200% sneak target with a leather jacket:





This range would be fine if the sneakers could only use the respective weapons which are either super low damage (silenced smgs and needler) or strong but require you to be in melee range (wakizashi, machete)

[catstevens]

22 hex would be fine. I must be lagging all the time or something, it's more like 10 hex for me. Couple days ago I was shooting at a sneak who was running from me, he just vanished around 10-15 hex

[cirn0]

Are you Ramon of top assassin fame?

I agree with your point of view, for a short term fix, we can easily tweak sneak variables to prevent abusable builds such as the sniper rape trains.

But personally, I don't like AoP's current sneak system and in the long run, if it were up to me, it would be changed to something less clearcut where @ X hexes you are invisible.

[catstevens]

I think in fallout tactics it was related to how many hexes but there was some function where it would determine how many seconds you had to be looking at the guy before he became visible. So for low PE or really far away youd have to look at them longer for them to appear. You could also make it so more than 1 person looking at the guy makes him visible faster or things like that.

I don't want sneak to be useless but when you are shooting at somone whos running from you in a straight line and they just vanish before theyre even half-way out of effective range, it feels less like sneak and more like a wizard spell

[Deathproof]

You could add something like anti-sneak device or a perk.
It would also be chargeable and once its on you see sneakers. Like some set of infrared spectacles.

Or a perk which makes sneakers visible constantly after they de-sneak until they hide totally from you (inside building etc) or you spot sneakers on greater distances and detect them better from sides/behind.

[RazorRamon]

Are you Ramon of top assassin fame?

I agree with your point of view, for a short term fix, we can easily tweak sneak variables to prevent abusable builds such as the sniper rape trains.

But personally, I don't like AoP's current sneak system and in the long run, if it were up to me, it would be changed to something less clearcut where @ X hexes you are invisible.

I am, but you should know this from the mumble 

I dont mind the current system but it could definitely stand some improvements. Due to the hexagonal setup of fallout in general the sneak detection is quite jittery, its very hard to keep track of a sneaker when your character always changes facings while running. On the other side, as the sneaker, its also quite difficult to approach someone from behind because the direction they'll be facing while running is quite unpredictable.

[RazorRamon]

I don't want sneak to be useless but when you are shooting at somone whos running from you in a straight line and they just vanish before theyre even half-way out of effective range, it feels less like sneak and more like a wizard spell

That shouldn't be possible though. You can't activate the stealth boy while you're standing in an enemy players field of vision.

[mAdman]

Sneak too stronk, nerf it!

It really is though, its hard to get more than a single shot off at a sneaker as, if you do manage to spot his ass he has run 6 hexes before you raise your gun for the second (or even first half the time) shot, putting him in invisible range, breaking the shot and giving him the gap to escape or reposition easily. If they go into stealth i either chase them until i can get a real shot (say, into an open field while i am a couple of steps behind, so never, lol), which in most cases gets me slapped for a casual 250 melee damage each hit 2 times in a row within a split second, or just let them go.

I have a perception of 9 and hawkeye btw.

I liked the idea of not being able to re-stealth after being shot for a period, but what if it where you are unable to re-enter stealth after being spotted, until you had moved out of all enemies sight radius again?

[3.14]

It all looks wrong to me.

I think a detected (seen!)sneaker should be kicked out of the sneak mode and he shouldn't be able to hide while in the FOV of enemies (unless one is a D&D Shadowdancer with the Hide in Plane Sight feat). And at the same time a sneaker should be able to sneak up on somebody from behind(!) and kill 8 times out of 10 (with a 100ap attack, that works only in sneak mode).

[mAdman]

I don't want sneak to be useless but when you are shooting at somone whos running from you in a straight line and they just vanish before theyre even half-way out of effective range, it feels less like sneak and more like a wizard spell

That shouldn't be possible though. You can't activate the stealth boy while you're standing in an enemy players field of vision.

Tell that to the guys doing it constantly lol, hell they do it within my rifles range.

[cirn0]

This isn't sneak, it requires usage of stealthboy, so yes by "Lore" you are invisible.

They aren't resneaking, they were never de-sneaked and are they really disappearing faster than you can get a unaimed shot off (400ms)? Has anyone tried hex-firing the general direction after spotting sneaker? The cone is huge on the shotgun / LMG I can't imagine in all situations the sneaker runs into cover that quickly.

I understand the current favoured meta is dual wielding snipers and only use aimed shots but the game has plenty of mechanics for dealing with most situations. (legitimate sneakers that try to get close to you. Not those that are sniping you from offscreen and resneaking)

[catstevens]

I think if you hit a sneak, they should be desneaked and remain so until they resneak outside of anyone's fov.

[cirn0]

I think if you hit a sneak, they should be desneaked and remain so until they resneak outside of anyone's fov.

That is the current mechanic

[catstevens]

then it must be broken, or I guess maybe lag is messing it up. I am 100% sure I have been in situation where I hit a sneak who is running away from me, then before I can take 2nd shot he vanishes, all without leaving my effective range or fov

[RazorRamon]

then it must be broken, or I guess maybe lag is messing it up. I am 100% sure I have been in situation where I hit a sneak who is running away from me, then before I can take 2nd shot he vanishes, all without leaving my effective range or fov

Was there cars or anything to hide behind around? This is how i usually try to get away if i get shot while stealthed. Run away from the enemy in a straight line and then resneak behind the first obstacle that comes up.