FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => Suggestions => Topic started by: RazorRamon on September 29, 2014, 08:53:49 PM

Title: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: RazorRamon on September 29, 2014, 08:53:49 PM
Two videos of Lawyers in action, recorded by Black Gold some days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkijz_n9onc

Big Snipers = balanced as fuck
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: maszrum on September 30, 2014, 02:37:30 AM
Quote
Big Snipers = balanced as fuck

yup, devs should do something with this ASAP
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Grand Bill King on October 01, 2014, 06:50:42 AM
lol noobs crying
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: maszrum on October 01, 2014, 08:07:08 AM
You dont see anything wrong with bg snipers? :)
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Fox on October 01, 2014, 08:26:11 AM
He sees that this is probably the only way he can keep fighting without dying at first seconds and feeling oneself like a hero. So don't be surprised that he called you "noob", it's just protective reaction.

But actually yes, I agree that something has to be done with all this.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: VVish on October 01, 2014, 08:59:19 AM
About bg snipers - they should be nerfed for sure, but week ago, when BBoys was outnumbering and outplaying another factions with better organization, none of them said anything about DSR-sooo-huuuge and also they had more bg-sniper than any other faction.
When DSR rape squad came in from Lawyers, it became too much imbalanced? That's ridiculous.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: maszrum on October 01, 2014, 09:03:55 AM
Everyone noticed that after first days of playing I even asked BBoys to make more heavy snipers but no one was intrested - "nas mnoho, who cares". Sugest to move disscusion to another topic coz BG snipers are a problem and hope DEVS have ready solution.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on October 01, 2014, 09:17:13 AM
.50 snipers need a nerf or something.  80 hexes away and someone can KO, 200 dmg critical, what is this shit. And sneakers carry this weapon.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Grand Bill King on October 01, 2014, 12:04:43 PM
dsr is normal, but  your problem u didn't use tactic vs dsr. And u just cry in forum about it.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Smalltime on October 01, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
Split from the other thread. Please keep it civil.
In my opinion, the DSR is definitely very powerful.
When there are more than two of them in a squad, you pretty much just pick people to instagib from a super long range.
Really devalues many other weapons.
It's part of a bigger problem really, which is that over half of every squad is snipers.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: PusiteGA on October 01, 2014, 01:26:33 PM
i noticed alot people whine nerf this nerf thet NERF WHATEWER KILLS ME
as i  noticed in game nothing needs nerf all can be counterd only some people use brain for crying isted thinking how to outsmart

for BG snipers flank them by using sneek or smart positioning, for Sneek use f Watchower perk and if you dont stop f whining cuz you got killed
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: The Brazilian Slaughter on October 01, 2014, 03:08:20 PM
Sorry but BG sneakers in general are ridiculous.
Don't forget these big-ass BG Sniper weapons need to be mounted on tripods, and in RL are fired from prone position. Its one thing to be sneaking with a silenced sniper rifle, but sneaking around with a Anti-Materiel Rifle is just wrong wrong wrong wrong.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: artaman on October 01, 2014, 03:11:11 PM
Yes agree sniper rifle must be NERF. Everyone agrees to give laser rifle +25 damage and 3x Piercing Strike and make plasma rifle from 60-75 to 120-180 and 50 range and MFC must have -20% dr/dt.

Don't forget these big-ass BG Sniper weapons need to be mounted on tripods, and in RL are fired from prone position.
here is some real life
 youtube.com/watch?v=EOoc2KnhlxA 
youtube.com/watch?v=NIiWf2DSOhM
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Smalltime on October 01, 2014, 03:23:09 PM
i noticed alot people whine nerf this nerf thet NERF WHATEWER KILLS ME
Balance is very important in PvP-centric games. Most of these weapons were balanced around smaller squads, and hypotheticals. I doubt it was the intent to have most of the squads be predominately snipers. Looking at the anatomy of squads, you can gain insight into how weapons are currently balanced. Even people who use these tactics have admitted that it needs to be changed.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: artaman on October 02, 2014, 10:38:05 AM
as suggestion for give a disadvantage to BG sniper but without any stats change i propose to add a big bright muzzle flash(sprite graphic) on sniper shoot. this way during battle once BG sniper shoot he give away his position easily and everyone will know where to rocket/grenade/focus fire on.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: paragon on October 02, 2014, 10:44:07 AM
here is some real life
 youtube.com/watch?v=EOoc2KnhlxA 
youtube.com/watch?v=NIiWf2DSOhM

I doubt they can hit anything at the distance more than 150m while standing, the gun is too heavy to keep it stable. That's why snipers shoot while prone.
Game is not RL for sure, and it's not realistic. Balance is more important, although "Realism" could be cool feature, it's certainly not the main argument.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Nunn on October 02, 2014, 10:51:10 AM
Either some form of deployment or give them a minimum accurate range would go a long way to making them more balance.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Simms on October 02, 2014, 11:00:26 AM
It has been told and repeated tens of times around here:
.50 rifles are quite fine by themselves. The only problem is their abundance and abundance of .50 ammunition. I'm pretty sure every major platoon in any faction has already hoarded enough rifles and rounds to equip the whole group of BG snipers and keep them firing for a week to go.
The other thing is that not everyone is willing to do this, even given the opportunity. I know folks that find it boring and too much "old fonline"-like.

What I think is that even availability can be left as it is now, it's just a nice reason for others to invent something new against mass-DSR blobs. It may not be as easy as it sounds but it yields much more fun.

P.S. The only other thing which can be considered "abnormal" about .50 guns is their AP cost compared to SG sniper rifles. You can have 1 shot per AP pool with aimed DSR or AS50 shot, the same goes for DKS, M1C and MSG (to some extent), which are baseline SG long-range weapons of choice. With AS50, leather jacket/FLA and BRoF+fast shot you can have 2 unaimed shots per AP pool, which is also very painful as it's 2 knockdowns in a row anyway.
So heavy sniper rifles have nearly the same RoF as light ones do, yielding them considerably higher DPS of aimed shots and enormously higher DPS of unaimed shots. It'd be nice if the difference in RoF between these two groups of weapon was a little bigger, considering the range advantage and killer perks on BG rifles.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: cirn0 on October 03, 2014, 03:28:37 AM
Knocking back deployed sniper rifles will make them unable to return fire at all but that is somewhat difficult in large battle where they simply click anybody and you have find your target.

The alpha strike damage, range and auto knockdown is a bit too generous for this weapon family in my opinion.

I would probably move damage to bleed.
I would tone down the weapon trait autoknock down to something resistible by AGI crit resist ( buffing the weakest special AGI ).
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: mAdman on October 03, 2014, 03:40:48 AM
Knocking back deployed sniper rifles will make them unable to return fire at all but that is somewhat difficult in large battle where they simply click anybody and you have find your target.

The alpha strike damage, range and auto knockdown is a bit too generous for this weapon family in my opinion.

I would probably move damage to bleed.
I would tone down the weapon trait autoknock down to something resistible by AGI crit resist ( buffing the weakest special AGI ).

Moving a lot of the heavy sniper damage to bleed would make an interesting change, I personally think a good one as it gives doctors an important task in these situations (to monitor bleed levels), and it removes the insta-death problems.

It might make a nice test, but I would suggest applying this to some of the high tier SG snipers too, to avoid a meta shift to these items instead.

High bleed over high flat damage sounds sounds like a game changer (in a good way).
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: artaman on October 03, 2014, 09:23:43 AM
but that is somewhat difficult in large battle where they simply click anybody and you have find your target.

i propose we add huge muzzle flash (as overlay sprite graphic)so be easy for spot sniper. something like
(http://i.imgur.com/FqkxoeX.jpg) or maybe bigger/brighter
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Ranger Arn on October 03, 2014, 09:31:20 AM
maybe block running with bg sniper like it is with minigun
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Niamak on October 03, 2014, 09:37:57 AM
The problem is when they stack 2-3+ BG sniper at the same position like in the first video. No problem when they have to move around.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on October 03, 2014, 09:44:07 AM
maybe block running with bg sniper like it is with minigun
I like this
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: GroeneAppel on October 03, 2014, 09:57:47 AM
I have a much better idea, just increase the firing animation time. Keep damage etc as it is. But just make the aiming timer twice as long.

This way you can seperate SG from BG nicely aswell. SG specializing in taking far quicker shots, while doing less damage versus the slow but lethal big gun snipers.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Myakot on October 03, 2014, 11:37:14 AM
maybe block running with bg sniper like it is with minigun
I like this
This idea is good, besides every other BG makes you walk, so why not.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: artaman on October 03, 2014, 11:47:41 AM
i disagree to make bg sniper only walk! no one wants BG sniper to have giant muzzle flash to make vulnerable in pvp? just make every weapon without run? i watch pvp video and you dont know who shot what. i would think a signature obvious muzzle flash overlay sprite would be obvious addition as when BG sniper shoot once it make itself target for focus fire, which would make it perfect target for rocket/grenade/sniper knockdown counter.

I have a much better idea, just increase the firing animation time. Keep damage etc as it is. But just make the aiming timer twice as long.
i agree with this. is perfect idea for nerf sniper without touching walk/run damage number or range/or price of ammo
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Myakot on October 03, 2014, 11:50:12 AM
A guy is standing with a giant weapon in his hands either outside or near the window which gives the view as far as the eye can see. PRETTY DAMN OBVIOUS.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: artaman on October 03, 2014, 12:08:30 PM
A guy is standing with a giant weapon in his hands either outside or near the window which gives the view as far as the eye can see. PRETTY DAMN OBVIOUS.
ya giant weapons, you are right pls tell which one is sniper/flamer/pks/laser rifle/bren
(http://i.imgur.com/RFQg4Jb.png)

unlike energy weapon with laser/plasma projectile, sniper rifle lacks any kind of READABILITY from where you are being shot and who is shooting you. maybe should add a trail for bullet (like halo sniper rifle) like Gauss rifle have
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: cirn0 on October 03, 2014, 12:40:38 PM
I have a much better idea, just increase the firing animation time.
Can I get a survey of sniper specials and how many of you dump AGI? I might tie aimtime to AGI.

maybe should add a trail for bullet (like halo sniper rifle) like Gauss rifle have

I just might. It was originally the plan 8 months ago but I merely forgot.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: RazorRamon on October 03, 2014, 12:48:50 PM
great, you saw a muzzle flash or tracer firing at you 90 hexes away

now all you gotta do is walk up 40(!) tiles and shoot them with your milkor/rocket launcher :^]
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Myakot on October 03, 2014, 12:56:22 PM
artaman did I not specify the range? Besides, you have awareness perk. If you see a flash, you are already dead.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: cirn0 on October 03, 2014, 01:09:04 PM
great, you saw a muzzle flash or tracer firing at you 90 hexes away

now all you gotta do is walk up 40(!) tiles and shoot them with your milkor/rocket launcher :^]

This never happened. You're sneak!
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: GroeneAppel on October 03, 2014, 01:13:52 PM
I have a much better idea, just increase the firing animation time.
Can I get a survey of sniper specials and how many of you dump AGI? I might tie aimtime to AGI.

maybe should add a trail for bullet (like halo sniper rifle) like Gauss rifle have

I just might. It was originally the plan 8 months ago but I merely forgot.

I'd assume that the average sniper rolls with 10lk. I personally haven't dumped AG, but that's because I made my char on day 1 and simply never changed it. But with the current state of the game most people i've talked too seem to enjoy making AG a dumpstat, no matter their build.
Tying aimtime to agility will certainly make a (both SG and BG) sniper think twice about dumping AG, though that still won't be any incentive for other classes to get some AG. perhaps attach deploytime to AG aswell while you are at it? Though i'd rather see the runspeed of those with low AG lowered, but that's for another topic.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Simms on October 03, 2014, 01:18:55 PM
Can I get a survey of sniper specials and how many of you dump AGI? I might tie aimtime to AGI.
Well, if you do so, it'll mean most of current combat characters will need another reroll. Dumping AGI is not the privilege of sniper builds -- you can do so on nearly every kind of char and in certain cases (e.g. melee + Sprinter perk on armors) 1 AGI is more beneficial than anything else as you can run faster for longer.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: PusiteGA on October 03, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
i dont think thet BG snipers need nerf but i would like big muzzle fash for fun
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: RazorRamon on October 03, 2014, 01:24:47 PM
great, you saw a muzzle flash or tracer firing at you 90 hexes away

now all you gotta do is walk up 40(!) tiles and shoot them with your milkor/rocket launcher :^]

This never happened. You're sneak!

i mean in general

big snipers have no counter apart from outnumbering them with your own bg snipers
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Hans Landa on October 03, 2014, 01:32:11 PM
Looking at the changes that are coming up, seems that we will need tag and trait reroll.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: faopcurious on October 03, 2014, 02:26:31 PM
311 damage!  Shot in the eyes for 311 damage!  I had 308 HP.  now thats fine and all,
I think weapons SHOULD one shot people, but with a gun that has 80 hex range?  BS.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: MARXMAN on October 03, 2014, 02:29:49 PM
What about either one of these things:  Damage falloff, or what some0one else ahs suggested and give them an engagement threshold e.g. an area in their effective range where they can do massive damage, but shots outside of this are less effective.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Hans Landa on October 03, 2014, 02:30:23 PM
311 damage!  Shot in the eyes for 311 damage!  I had 308 HP. 
Build some HP next time, geez.
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: PorkchopExpress on October 03, 2014, 02:36:36 PM
311 damage!  Shot in the eyes for 311 damage!  I had 308 HP. 
Build some HP next time, geez.

ROFL! And max hp without module bonuses is 350,and then you say to a 308 hp guy  build some hp.....People never cease to amaze me...
Title: Re: BG Sniper Balance
Post by: Niamak on October 03, 2014, 02:39:30 PM
311 damage!  Shot in the eyes for 311 damage!  I had 308 HP. 
Build some HP next time, geez.

Next time, turn back so it's a headshot instead.  :-*