FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix
Game improvements => Developer Corner => Topic started by: cirn0 on October 09, 2014, 05:00:09 PM
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Lets start off by quoting myself from some earlier post I made in suggestions:
The deterioration mechanics are in for some changes.
Currently it just goes from 100% -> Broken, Stats changing every 25%.
For starters:
In future, hope to have items with another value called Quality,
In the scale of 0 = Mint , 10 = Garbage
Crafted items will be within the 0~4 quality range.
Store bought items be between 2~5 quality range
Found items between 0 ~ 10+.
Item deterioration speed will be multiplied by quality.
Each repair will have a chance of increasing quality by 1.
Hopefully increasing the value of armours and weapons that are crafted as well as increase the turnover rate of items in the economy.
Now, this next part is completely inane and up for discussion:
I want to add in the ability for players to mod their weapons / armor, so in conjunction to the quality from the above quote, crafted items will have 0 to 5 OPEN SLOTS for MODS .
What are mods?
MODS will simply be new items that can be inserted into weapons / armors to insert a new perk.
EXAMPLE - BROF MOD inserted into your weapon that has 1 SLOT OPEN => weapon with BROF and 0 SLOTS.
I am debating to allow for duplication of the same mod which will result in obvious imbalanced weapons but possibly FUN? And of course massive rage when you lose it to getting one shot by a sneak melee.
Tell me what you think!
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Sounds awesome. Will they be new perks on top of the default weapon perks and traits, or will the 5 mods then make up the weapon/armors perks, to be unlocked with skills? Or will you make the mod slots replace the weapon/armor traits instead of perks?
Maybe limiting it to 2-3 duplicate perks per item, to limit any overzealous limbshredding/knockout combos. Or possibly make certain perks a one per gun only mod and others with the potential to have multiple.
Or possibly leaving 1-3 "default" perks in a weapon or armor, but leaving the last 2-4 slots moddable. To limit the more imba mod combos to only certain weapons.
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I fell like five slots is too many for most weapons, and stacking mods would just get too nasty too quick.
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I think it should be max 3 different mods on item.
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5 slots may or may not be too much, as others have said. Depending on how much they actually did thought it might not. I would lvoe to see this in game, would add a whole 'nother layer of gameplay. Being able to adapt your weapon to situations you often find yourself in would be great.
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Yeah 2-3 default perks and 2-3 customizable ones would be best, possibly have some weapons more customizable than others.
And not stacking unless it is a default perk as well? So unless a weapon had 3x a specific perk by default you would never be able to have more than 3 of the same perk in a single gun.
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Sounds damn good to be true.
I'm definitely against stacking same upgrades to the weapon, already imagining some sniper rifles with BROFx5... uff, too much fun, no thx ;D.
Unless every weapon will have it's own *possible amount of mods attached*
BTW this would help balancing ARs and SMGs, just make them have 5 slots and everything else 1-2. (or similar).
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I don't see this as being balanced any time soon... just imagine an AS-50 with 3 better criticals instead of 2 more crits and 1 better crits, or with piercing strike instead of better knockouts... or even the base perks+ better crits/hit the gaps/piercing strike/brof/etc/etc/etc...
But if instead of modding the traits/perks you could only change base stats of a weapon/armor and every modification having a pro and a con, I see it as more possible. Make each slot a category and 2/3 options for each. Scheme/example of powerhorse, diff mods could have diff stats:
Desert Eagle .50 Ext.Cap
Min ST: 3
Weight: 2200gram.
Ammo: 0/10
Dmg: 35-60
Max Rng: 35
Ap(unaimed):25
-Slots
1. Trigger - Marksman trigger: Min ST+1 Max Rng+4 125 gram.
2. Internal - Heavy spring: Ap(unaimed)+4 Dmg+10% 250gram.
3. Sight - Marskman sight: Min ST+1 Max Rng+4 125 gram.
4. Barrel - Stainless Steel barrel: Ap(unaimed)+4 Dmg+10% 250gram.
-Modded version
Desert Eagle .50 Ext.Cap
Min ST: 5
Weight: 2950gram.
Ammo: 0/10
Dmg: 43-68(its a guess, haven't done math)
Max Rng: 43
Ap(unaimed):33
The names come from here http://heroesandgenerals.gamepedia.com/Weapon_Modifications#Triggers
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Just noticed that there is a "Making your items personal" in the topic...
I don't know about that, there have to be really strong reasons for such mechanic to exist. (For an example it will be T3 only, and you will still lose it upon death, it's just that it's "dna-bound" and no one else can use it, still is a shaky ground to step on).
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Just noticed that there is a "Making your items personal" in the topic...
I don't know about that, there have to be really strong reasons for such mechanic to exist. (For an example it will be T3 only, and you will still lose it upon death, it's just that it's "dna-bound" and no one else can use it, still is a shaky ground to step on).
Oh I was just using that phrase as a way to express how crafting at the minute is very impersonal and it really didn't matter to you how your items turn out.
I've thought about it some more and the answer to my own question.
-Getting slots will be exponentially rare. Possibly 1/5 will be 1 slotted, 1/50 will be 2 slotted, and so on.
-No duplicate mods on the weapon
The mods themselves of course can be more than just perks, but for the time being I can get this feature out within a day or two reusing already existing assets.
I'm not going into the detailed weapon modification ala Jagged Alliance where specific weapons have specific hard-points but restricting mods on specific weapons and perhaps even unique mods for specific weapon sub-types.
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I just hope you won't create too big gap by this step.
Right now, when almost everyone has the same equipment to fight with, even a new player has a possibility to go and fight equally to no-lifers.
With implementing tier 3, weapon slots and etc, there will be players who can and can not afford such equipment, especially if it significantly better (meaning has significantly higher price).
Meaning that the richest become over-powered.
If you can balance it, yeah, it sounds cool. But does it worth the work then, if it's not significantly changes things?
If some equipment could be get, eventually you will see the whole groups fully equipped in it.
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I'll add to the idea i schemed that such mods should be easy to get and accesible, craftable with common/uncommon mats, so most of the weapons you use are modded to your liking and serving different specific purposes, and making diff mods appealing so there would be several good combinations and not just 1 or 2 OP. Such mods will leave the standard model as good/balanced and then different possibilites according to what you want, even lower carry of some heavier guns at cost of sth for sneakers
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I'm afraid this idea would only make powerful players even more powerful. Basically players who have little chances of loosing their weapon (players from well organized big groups) putting smaller groups in ever bigger disadvantage.
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Seems op, especially when weapons already have 5 perks. And armors with these mods and leader buffs already, oh lawd (if they're not damage resistance buffs)
It will be good if they had a pro and a con, example, I mod my deagle to have 5 more efficiency range but 15% more AP cost to shoot.
Would be good if I can add sprinter on combat armor, but -20 view range (capped at 30)
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Idea with traits instead of perks would be great
Cons and pros in that way weapons would be more specialised and in that way more into player type of playing.
We shouldn't make it that those slots is next must have thing like -ap cost on reloaded or fagline2. Traits in that way will balance it out itself
Second thing make some npc who will add slot by high price it will be for sure next way to spend cash on something than craft it en masse
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If the mods will be all over the place, easy to horde and cheap then I say "Yay!". If they are play-50h-to-get-one-rare, than I say "Nay!".
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I agree with the fact it will make powerful players even more powerful. The idea seems nice but would be possible if it was a pve game, here it will create way too OP weapons i think (even though being able to create personalized weapon sounds awesome) and new/casual players will have no chance (not that they have a lot atm anyway)
The idea of having pros and cons is very nice and can make this happen, but I like the fact that atm you can use weapons for their perks instead of only looking at dam, and adding personalized perks on weapons could make everybody have the same stuff in some time as people will know good combos.
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adding personalized perks on weapons could make everybody have the same stuff in some time as people will know good combos.
People do that already though.
I agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be rare, or too rare anyway, making mods about as common as relics and the like would be fine.
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Custom mods sound hard to balance. ::)
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Lets start off by quoting myself from some earlier post I made in suggestions:
The deterioration mechanics are in for some changes.
Currently it just goes from 100% -> Broken, Stats changing every 25%.
For starters:
In future, hope to have items with another value called Quality,
In the scale of 0 = Mint , 10 = Garbage
Crafted items will be within the 0~4 quality range.
Store bought items be between 2~5 quality range
Found items between 0 ~ 10+.
Item deterioration speed will be multiplied by quality.
Each repair will have a chance of increasing quality by 1.
Hopefully increasing the value of armours and weapons that are crafted as well as increase the turnover rate of items in the economy.
Now, this next part is completely inane and up for discussion:
I want to add in the ability for players to mod their weapons / armor, so in conjunction to the quality from the above quote, crafted items will have 0 to 5 OPEN SLOTS for MODS .
What are mods?
MODS will simply be new items that can be inserted into weapons / armors to insert a new perk.
EXAMPLE - BROF MOD inserted into your weapon that has 1 SLOT OPEN => weapon with BROF and 0 SLOTS.
I am debating to allow for duplication of the same mod which will result in obvious imbalanced weapons but possibly FUN? And of course massive rage when you lose it to getting one shot by a sneak melee.
Tell me what you think!
Wow, I really LOVE this weapon MODs idea. You guys doing the DEV work must have big SEXY powerful brains to COME UP WITH such a GREAT idea.
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Wow, how did i miss this post?
Really like to see weapon mods implemented.
I think this will a better option than have those legendary weapons and having both can be extreme (weapon traits+5 perks+5? weapon mods +legendary bonus?)
About duplicating mods, i think that some of them should not be stackable (like better criticals), but i don't see a problem with others (like more criticals and bonus damage)
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maybe give the ability to alter the existing perks on individual weapons instead. Just a thought. I'm not a big fan of 'legendary'. customize/personalize/whatever but don't make it take too much farm to get viable equipment. It seems to me that adding mods to existing weaps could make any op option even more so. Take care.
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I share that feeling.
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i dont feel that it would make some wepaons op , make mods not cheap , roblem solved and dont add super duper advances over vanilla guns , maybe some accuracy improvements , ammo capacity , kind of that shit , maybe some grenade launcher u can put under some weapons (assault maybe) would be cool ...
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Leave only little room for customization on top tier weapons like Gauss Rifle or Vindicator, and more mod slots for lower grades.
Honestly I'd love to run around shooting BROF X5 Mauser chucking 9MM at the speed of an IRL minigun. It would really add value to those weapons we discard by basics of being simply unviable in the current version of the game.
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That is not a bad idea at all. I like it.
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bump Cirn0 :-*
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What's the problem of Legendaries? I think the feature still needs some work, but we were all really excited when coming up with that idea. Don't you like it because you feel it implies farming? Why so? Are Legendaries so mandatory in pvp?
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I think the problem is most players still think legendary weapons as legendary items from other MMOs with superior stats over normal items. After all, fonline players are mostly MMO players. So it's not clear enough that legendary weapons in this game are just weapons with special cosmetic.
So far, players who got legendaries seems to like this feature as they are allowed to add their personal touch to the game and leaderboard.
ps : not anymore
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Mods sounds like nice idea. Must be common like leadership chips and relics though, and low tier weapons should have more slots than high tier.
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gib Ak with x5 reliable pls
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Big bad +1 from me about this idea, but:
1. They shouldn't replace original item's perks.
2. They shouldn't have too much influence on items - let them improve such aspects like ammo capacity, hex-attack area, wearing qualities, reload speed e.t.c. (something definitely useful, but not making weapon overpowered).
3. For first make 3, not 5 slots.
4. Make mods easy to get.
5. Something else..
I actually would like to see mods which improve main stats (like crit chance, strength of crit, ap for shoot), but I'm afraid it will ruin brittle balance. So no, screw it.
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No. Leave extra perks on legendaries and don't make weapons moddable (is that english?).
Introduce weapon mods and here's what will happen:
Tentacle overlord Cirn will invent great weapon of much kill.
Players will start modding and discover the most efficient set-up.
Cirn's great idea of much kill now obsolete because now everyone will use weapon with same custom configuration.
Blasphemy.
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how about all legendaries from faction xy get -20% legendary when afk cap
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how about all legendaries from faction xy get -20% legendary when afk cap
how about all legendaries from faction xy get -20% legendary when courier cry
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how about all legendaries from faction xy get -20% legendary when afk cap
how about all legendaries from faction xy get -20% legendary when courier cry
curir never cris
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Is this idea still in disscussion? Just wanted to write down some of my opinions.
Lets start from afar - why people stoped playing aop after first several months? There was nothing to do except neverending PVP. There were some dungeons, but they were not so profitable. A lot of people in fonline like just to farm stuff till the end of the days and go pvp once per week. And I see here perfect possibility to bring more farm to game, without breaking the balance.
So what's mythe idea: People can craft 2 types of same weapon/armor - normal, same as we have now, and empty, one that has 5 empty perk slots. Slots can be filled with modules, with some restrictions(no modules of the same type for ex., though i think better restriction could be created).
Modules are craftable aswell, recipes are found in the core/dungeons, materials for most modules are found in the core, materials for better modules are dropped from dungeon bosses.
So players, that want spend more time farming, can create cusom weapons/armors that they like more but that won't be strictly better than existent armors/weapons.
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I think the question is how to make it not break the balance of the game.
Modded item vs non modded item.
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I think the question is how to make it not break the balance of the game.
Modded item vs non modded item.
John has mentioned that they were thinking about mod slots being tradoffs rather than straight upgrades.
EX: Adding a drum mag gives a huge capacity boost, but takes way more AP to reload.
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Yeah makes sense.
The thing is if you make it a sidegrade item that requires farming, it would still kinda break the balance. As this kind of item would still be better than regular item in certain situation. You can take sPA for example which require some farming, the idea already kinda backfired and crying ensued (even with such small playerbase).
Or imagine flamer was taken out regular item pool and now require farming, as it is a niche item you wouldnt see it too often but still pretty powerful in certain situation. How would you feel about it ? same could be said for armor.
Just roll with it. #yolo #aopdev
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ITS FONLINE IN THE END EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE FARMED , KURWA ... IT SEEMS LIKE U PEOPLE FORGOT WHAT BUMS U WERE RIGHT AFTER SEASON HAS STARTED , BUT WAIT U ALREADY HAD PANCOR AND STUFF HUEHUE BECOZ NO GRIND RIGHT ? lmfao
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Yeah makes sense.
The thing is if you make it a sidegrade item that requires farming, it would still kinda break the balance. As this kind of item would still be better than regular item in certain situation. You can take sPA for example which require some farming, the idea already kinda backfired and crying ensued (even with such small playerbase).
Or imagine flamer was taken out regular item pool and now require farming, as it is a niche item you wouldnt see it too often but still pretty powerful in certain situation. How would you feel about it ? same could be said for armor.
Just roll with it. #yolo #aopdev
Off topic, but I have always hated sPA just because of what you said, farming. It makes like half the guns in the game no next to no damage. Thats not a sidegrade, thats a straight upgrade for people with no lives. Would also be just as salty with the flamer suggestion.
My problem, and I think I'm not alone, is that I have a "life". I have a person whos needs I need to satisfy, I have a job, I have obligations/responsibilities. I know it's not fallout's fault that I can't play all the time, but even though I know it isn't I still get mad at the game sometimes because it's run by "no-lifers" (for lack of a better term). Make anything farmable, like what has been done with Robco/Warmart/etc, and 90 percent of the regular playerbase will never see it except for the recieving end. I just don't have time to do PVE farming, and why I have always loved this server. I was a bum in the beggining yes, but it wasn't a hardcore grind to get to where I am currently, level 42 with a stockpile that would make Texas jelly.
And yet, I've never used an MG42
Never seen sPA in my inventory
saw an alien blaster recently because luck
In fact, the only weapon I have that isn't buyable is the Turbo Plas Cannon, and I got real lucky with finding that one.
and I'm fighting people who have been grinding out Robco and etc encounters to get Bozars and Vindicators and blue/yellow nukas. Half the time when I loot a vtec I go, "damn, thats some gear, I would never have taken all of this to ZC." but to them its nothing, because farming pve is fucking easy with the right amount of people.
You figure out a formula, you go in, and you do it X amount of times until you get Y loot.
^ That is my biggest problem with PVE (WHEN YOU ADD ITEM FARMING). Its simply exploitable for people who dont have anything better to do.
Im totally ok with having tons of PVE, but ya'll can go to hell if you think it should be incredibly rewarding.
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marxman what problem u have ? u know that u can get good stuff from looting the enemy who uses such stuff right , swarm argument for pve is low because same swarm will swarm u even in pvp and take ur stuff so i dont see anything good in your post . maybe u played with the wrong people all the time for not seeing such stuff in your inventory :D
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MARXMAN
Thats what is my idea about, not adding farm-to-win content, but farm-to-customize. Custom equipment won't be strictly better than normal one, though it will be different!
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No serious grinding in AOP. Go robco with team of 6 people who know what they are doing and everyone will have a t3 weapon within 3 hours of play.
Half the time you loot a tec and go 'damn, that's some gear' is also half the time a tec brings the best he got to ZC rather than hamstering. Not like there is a lack of t3 gear on server on any faction. So if you feel you're not getting your hands on anything worth your while. Better talk to your teammates, because there is plenty to go around for everyone.
Anyways. I left you an sPA and a nuka cola cap in lawyers gate. Better be fast though.
(http://s15.postimg.org/6806euvuz/2015_08_16_01_34_18_FOnline.png)
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No serious grinding in AOP. Go robco with team of 6 people who know what they are doing and everyone will have a t3 weapon within 3 hours of play.
Half the time you loot a tec and go 'damn, that's some gear' is also half the time a tec brings the best he got to ZC rather than hamstering. Not like there is a lack of t3 gear on server on any faction. So if you feel you're not getting your hands on anything worth your while. Better talk to your teammates, because there is plenty to go around for everyone.
Anyways. I left you an sPA and a nuka cola cap in lawyers gate. Better be fast though.
(http://s15.postimg.org/6806euvuz/2015_08_16_01_34_18_FOnline.png)
haha, wasn't fast enough apprently.
But Regarding best gear, I bring my best when I have teammates to cover me. If I know I'm probably going to get smoked, I bring a bunch of things Im perfectly ok with losing, that I'm still 100 percent effective with. I Bring the best I think Im going to be with in the situation I'll most likely be in, not the "best of the best". I dont have a selection of T3 to choose from, which isn't my problem really, others got it fair and square. I guess it's my attitude but I try and mix it up everytime I go to ZC with my weapon choice and things, to throw people off. Making T3's farmable as the game has done currently is just making super squads who have the gear to do anything and everything if they know what they're getting into. It sort of kills of fun of having this large selection of weapons. Im not saying T2 isn't totally viable and you can't kill anyone, as some of the best weapons are t2, but recently I've just been seeing these totally geared to fuck and back squads loaded with T3; some on my side included. It just makes me go hmmmm when I'm searching through my apoco-box-o-guns and I know that pretty much 90 percent of these weapons are going to gimp my damage output.
MARXMAN
Thats what is my idea about, not adding farm-to-win content, but farm-to-customize. Custom equipment won't be strictly better than normal one, though it will be different!
I'm ok with farming side-grades like tradoffs, but I'm hoping to god these mods will be serious tradoffs when implemented, if implemented. I want all guns to be viable via sidegrading rather than having a set of weapons as we do now that donimates certain types of zones.
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Just some food for thought, Planetside 2 has sidegrades that require farming and free regular item. It seems to work pretty well in a game where a polyvalent item is usually more useful than a very specialized item.
Quite funny to see when Courier was one of the first to cry about the lack of farming required ingame and was also the first to cry when farming was implemented (sPA, t3 and Robco)
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No serious grinding in AOP. Go robco with team of 6 people who know what they are doing and everyone will have a t3 weapon within 3 hours of play.
Half the time you loot a tec and go 'damn, that's some gear' is also half the time a tec brings the best he got to ZC rather than hamstering. Not like there is a lack of t3 gear on server on any faction. So if you feel you're not getting your hands on anything worth your while. Better talk to your teammates, because there is plenty to go around for everyone.
Anyways. I left you an sPA and a nuka cola cap in lawyers gate. Better be fast though.
(http://s15.postimg.org/6806euvuz/2015_08_16_01_34_18_FOnline.png)
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haha, wasn't fast enough apprently.
But Regarding best gear, I bring my best when I have teammates to cover me.
If I know I'm probably going to get smoked, I bring a bunch of things Im perfectly ok with losing, that I'm still 100 percent effective with. I Bring the best I think Im going to be with in the situation I'll most likely be in, not the "best of the best".
I dont have a selection of T3 to choose from, which isn't my problem really, others got it fair and square. I guess it's my attitude but I try and mix it up everytime I go to ZC with my weapon choice and things, to throw people off.
Making T3's farmable as the game has done currently is just making super squads who have the gear to do anything and everything if they know what they're getting into. It sort of kills of fun of having this large selection of weapons.
Im not saying T2 isn't totally viable and you can't kill anyone, as some of the best weapons are t2, but recently I've just been seeing these totally geared to fuck and back squads loaded with T3; some on my side included.
It just makes me go hmmmm when I'm searching through my apoco-box-o-guns and I know that pretty much 90 percent of these weapons are going to gimp my damage output.
MARXMAN
Thats what is my idea about, not adding farm-to-win content, but farm-to-customize. Custom equipment won't be strictly better than normal one, though it will be different!
I'm ok with farming side-grades like tradoffs, but I'm hoping to god these mods will be serious tradoffs when implemented, if implemented. I want all guns to be viable via sidegrading rather than having a set of weapons as we do now that donimates certain types of zones.
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John has mentioned that they were thinking about mod slots being tradoffs rather than straight upgrades.
EX: Adding a drum mag gives a huge capacity boost, but takes way more AP to reload.
Yea I hope this happens. I mean ext. drum can mean lose in overall max hit chance...since you're spraying bullets + bigger hexing cone
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Yea I hope this happens. I mean ext. drum can mean lose in overall max hit chance...since you're spraying bullets + bigger hexing cone
Well, we already have it in some form with the AK and FN FAL/LAR, but if it will be possible to customize one initial weapon in many ways it would be kinda nice (I just hope that all the guns will be competitive and there will be no one ultimate custom weapon build)
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first there will always be the best weapon in each weapon skill plus all weapones will never be usefull yannick , this is not call of duty
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If it happens so, than all those weapons are not needed. I agree with the idea, that there could be the best weapon in each weapon skill, some all around T3 with highest stats in the game, but if any weapon is inserted in the game - it should have it's role, not just be there for the sake of numbers. In my opinion weapons in one tier should not be the same, but should complement certain builds and certain strategies of playing.
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only strategy to win in fonline is to swarm
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only strategy to win in fonline is to swarm
gief weapons that punish swarm and arent just grenades/rockets and other aoe explosions
gief CHAIN LIGHTNING
gief projectiles that BOUNCE as long as theres another target within x hex
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only strategy to win in fonline is to swarm
only strategy to win in fonline is to cry
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If it happens so, than all those weapons are not needed. I agree with the idea, that there could be the best weapon in each weapon skill, some all around T3 with highest stats in the game, but if any weapon is inserted in the game - it should have it's role, not just be there for the sake of numbers. In my opinion weapons in one tier should not be the same, but should complement certain builds and certain strategies of playing.
Its already implemented. DSR with hit the gaps or better bleed. M1C with better criticals. Lazor Gat with knockdown.
IMHO legendary system is perfect and we dont need any customization apart from it
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Oh, of course we have it. I think the discussion is about the next season and making this system wider and deeper. And more accessible to the playerbase (all the
retards lazy people who can't make a weapon legendary on their own).
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Oh, of course we have it. I think the discussion is about the next season and making this system wider and deeper. And more accessible to the playerbase (all the retards lazy people who can't make a weapon legendary on their own).
u mean tecs ?
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Oh, of course we have it. I think the discussion is about the next season and making this system wider and deeper. And more accessible to the playerbase (all the retards lazy people who can't make a weapon legendary on their own).
Thats not nice, I'm not lazy, I just always get looted by Tecs. One of those fuckers still has my 60 percent UKM/40 percent Milkor. I'm never going to get leg because I don't care about my gear that much, always end up losing it to uneven battles I shouldn't have entered.