FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix
Game improvements => The Lobby => Topic started by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on February 25, 2016, 04:20:38 PM
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- Increase SEC cost to 5.
- Add recharge cost, maybe 40 AP.
- Lower capacity to 15 or 20.
Currently 2 or 3 hits can make someone crippled and 130 bleed with taking at least 160 HP, more sometimes. Usually the player has to FA, take a stimpack or doc themselves before bleeding out. Venemous hands cancels out the food so they no other option.
"But take Super Sledge SRALKER" - Not everyone always takes it and ripper is sometimes unexpected
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my dumb idea:
- reduce ap cost to 5 per hit
- reduce attack time to close to 0
- significantly reduce the damage
let it feel like you are "chainsawing" someone ;D
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let it feel like you are "chainsawing" someone ;D
would be pretty cool
but would also fuck over people with high ping, cause autoshoot doesnt work with melee weapons
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Ripper + Ramon = Sad Stem
I always thought ripper was ridiculous. Once they start hitting you its pretty much GG. As stalker says you're forced to FA,DOC,SS and once you do that your just sitting there waiting for ramon to laugh and finish you off.
I have never successfully been able to 1v1 a ripper with any other weapon.
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I have never successfully been able to 1v1 a ripper with any other weapon.
Super Sledge... counters pretty much every other melee weapon
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Super Sledge... counters pretty much every other melee weapon
I believe he's talking about guns. Not other melees. Only 2 weapons that can cancel out ripper and are mpf and sledge, but both of these have guaranteed knockback.
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I have never successfully been able to 1v1 a ripper with any other weapon.
Super Sledge... counters pretty much every other melee weapon
Sure. Its still ridiculous. Also, Super Sledge is another weapon that makes me cry.
I suppose part of HTH is getting close enough to use it. But once you do that with either weapons, its GG. In my experience anyway.
So much cover is in the city, and gap closing abilities (Voodoo for example) makes it so hard for me personally to counter it.
HTH has never been my strong suit, both using it or fighting against it.
Ripper has nasty bleed and damage capabilities. And Super Sledge has that god awful KD/KO and knockback.
Taken by surprise as is often the case for rippers, leaves little time for counter play. Unless I happen to have this Super Sledge...
dying like a helpless puppy to both of these weapons has always felt, cheap. IMO.
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Taken by surprise as is often the case for rippers, leaves little time for counter play. Unless I happen to have this Super Sledge...
But that the purpose of melee weapons.. If i manage to close the gap, and get at melee range catching you off guard with a melee weapon, you certainly deserve to die...
Imagine that a melee player in the scenario described, catch a ranged player off guard... but the ranged players still have 50% chances of counterplay and win… what will be the purpose of playing melee...
Melee its countered by playing carefully, choosing good positions, having support from teammates.
I can agree that melee do damage too fast, so its very hard to react against. But the problem is that if the damage gets lowered it will be too easy to escape from a melee attacker.
What's can be done, in my opinion, its to rework melee so they do less damage, but locks enemies (suppression, chance to immobilize or whatever) so enemy cannot escape so easy and have to choose if fight or try to escape.
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Ripper + Ramon = Sad Stem
I always thought ripper was ridiculous. Once they start hitting you its pretty much GG. As stalker says you're forced to FA,DOC,SS and once you do that your just sitting there waiting for ramon to laugh and finish you off.
I have never successfully been able to 1v1 a ripper with any other weapon.
CAWS with white shells does a decent job. But I suppose it's not meant to be 1v1'ed at close range, in the same fashion as you won't win a ranged fight vs a BG sniper. Ripper becomes utterly useless if you manage to keep range and avoid rushing or getting rushed.
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The ripper does the job its intended to do pretty well. It may seem OP, but thats only because other HtH weapons are so underwhelming.
Objectively, for their range, HtH weapons should be more damaging than any other weapon. Point being; when you are in melee range, HtH should be the most powerful weapon. Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
It becomes OP when a HtH character can charge from far outside its melee range, while being shot, and kill another player.
I've never had a HtH character close the range gap while eating bullets and kill me in an OP manner. Thats not to say the I have never been killed by HtH; I have. But being surprised by something and killed by it means that you were outplayed not that it was OP.
The only thing I can think of with the Ripper is the SEC capacity. With 30 capacity and 1 SEC per rip, you can practically use it for an entire fight without reloading.
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The ripper does the job its intended to do pretty well. It may seem OP, but thats only because other HtH weapons are so underwhelming.
Objectively, for their range, HtH weapons should be more damaging than any other weapon. Point being; when you are in melee range, HtH should be the most powerful weapon. Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
It becomes OP when a HtH character can charge from far outside its melee range, while being shot, and kill another player.
I've never had a HtH character close the range gap while eating bullets and kill me in an OP manner. Thats not to say the I have never been killed by HtH; I have. But being surprised by something and killed by it means that you were outplayed not that it was OP.
The only thing I can think of with the Ripper is the SEC capacity. With 30 capacity and 1 SEC per rip, you can practically use it for an entire fight without reloading.
and 0ap relaod changes aynthing ?
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The ripper does the job its intended to do pretty well. It may seem OP, but thats only because other HtH weapons are so underwhelming.
Objectively, for their range, HtH weapons should be more damaging than any other weapon. Point being; when you are in melee range, HtH should be the most powerful weapon. Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
It becomes OP when a HtH character can charge from far outside its melee range, while being shot, and kill another player.
I've never had a HtH character close the range gap while eating bullets and kill me in an OP manner. Thats not to say the I have never been killed by HtH; I have. But being surprised by something and killed by it means that you were outplayed not that it was OP.
The only thing I can think of with the Ripper is the SEC capacity. With 30 capacity and 1 SEC per rip, you can practically use it for an entire fight without reloading.
No need to nerf ripper IMO, a 5 SEC (as sralker proposed) cost per RIP makes total sense and isn't a straight nerf.
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The ripper does the job its intended to do pretty well. It may seem OP, but thats only because other HtH weapons are so underwhelming.
Objectively, for their range, HtH weapons should be more damaging than any other weapon. Point being; when you are in melee range, HtH should be the most powerful weapon. Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
It becomes OP when a HtH character can charge from far outside its melee range, while being shot, and kill another player.
I've never had a HtH character close the range gap while eating bullets and kill me in an OP manner. Thats not to say the I have never been killed by HtH; I have. But being surprised by something and killed by it means that you were outplayed not that it was OP.
The only thing I can think of with the Ripper is the SEC capacity. With 30 capacity and 1 SEC per rip, you can practically use it for an entire fight without reloading.
No need to nerf ripper IMO, a 5 SEC (as sralker proposed) cost per RIP makes total sense and isn't a straight nerf.
dont forget to put 50ap reload on it
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But that the purpose of melee weapons.. If i manage to close the gap, and get at melee range catching you off guard with a melee weapon, you certainly deserve to die...
So you're telling me, the game's maps mostly composed of close quarter city maps, a melee guy somehow closes the gap on me on a city map, I deserve to die? :o
Melee its countered by playing carefully, choosing good positions, having support from teammates.
On a 1 vs 1 scenario, melee will always win...only chance is if he takes voodoo and runs around till they both get winded and now finally shooter can shoot back.
I can agree that melee do damage too fast, so its very hard to react against. But the problem is that if the damage gets lowered it will be too easy to escape from a melee attacker.
I'm not suggesting to lower damage (although maybe reducing the bleed would be nice), only to make it more costly in SEC, Action points, and add reload cost. Currently ripper is just non stop swing swing swing
What's can be done, in my opinion, its to rework melee so they do less damage, but locks enemies (suppression, chance to immobilize or whatever) so enemy cannot escape so easy and have to choose if fight or try to escape.
That's why some weapons have auto knockback or knockout...I can understand why super sledge has auto knockdown but doesn't hit as hard when using swing.
Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
MPF is also a useable weapon in PvP and IMO its too strong. I mean it causes auto-knockback so if target is inside a room, it will deal extra damage and it already does an average of 80-100 on punch (not mega-punch).
Just look how Komrade gets fucked (https://youtu.be/U4vrc3Nht1A?t=1385) by the MPF. I've also experienced this and caused it too others. 4 hits can easily bring someone to 350 --> - # so MPF should just get a nerf (removing auto knockback and add 20% knockback and lowering damage IMO).
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But that the purpose of melee weapons.. If i manage to close the gap, and get at melee range catching you off guard with a melee weapon, you certainly deserve to die...
So you're telling me, the game's maps mostly composed of close quarter city maps, a melee guy somehow closes the gap on me on a city map, I deserve to die? :o
Melee its countered by playing carefully, choosing good positions, having support from teammates.
On a 1 vs 1 scenario, melee will always win...only chance is if he takes voodoo and runs around till they both get winded and now finally shooter can shoot back.
I can agree that melee do damage too fast, so its very hard to react against. But the problem is that if the damage gets lowered it will be too easy to escape from a melee attacker.
I'm not suggesting to lower damage (although maybe reducing the bleed would be nice), only to make it more costly in SEC, Action points, and add reload cost. Currently ripper is just non stop swing swing swing
What's can be done, in my opinion, its to rework melee so they do less damage, but locks enemies (suppression, chance to immobilize or whatever) so enemy cannot escape so easy and have to choose if fight or try to escape.
That's why some weapons have auto knockback or knockout...I can understand why super sledge has auto knockdown but doesn't hit as hard when using swing.
Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
MPF is also a useable weapon in PvP and IMO its too strong. I mean it causes auto-knockback so if target is inside a room, it will deal extra damage and it already does an average of 80-100 on punch (not mega-punch).
Just look how Komrade gets fucked (https://youtu.be/U4vrc3Nht1A?t=1385) by the MPF. I've also experienced this and caused it too others. 4 hits can easily bring someone to 350 --> - # so MPF should just get a nerf (removing auto knockback and add 20% knockback and lowering damage IMO).
nah mega powerfist is fine , the attacks are high ap costly while rippers isnt , also mpf got a balanced sizeclip also reload cost and second firemod has over 1 sec speedtime aimtime attacktime whatever so its not the best option , once i tried to mess around with it some target was outside of a room 3 hexes or 2 just i tried to superpunch him but was getting almsot rekt by other players becasue my char didnt attacked instantly ... i think mega powerfist is good balanced. super cattleprod needs buff and ripper needs nerfs with instacripples low ap cost etc , ripper is destryoing the usage of all other melee weapons...
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I'm not a fan of the MPF. Its AP cost is too high to finish off a player within 1 or even 2 full AP bars, even if they don't heal. Plus, half the time it knocks the enemy too far away for you to hit again. So they just get up and run away.
The situation with Komrade only happened because Komrade was literally in a corner taking damage from hitting the wall and not flying away.
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Are you guys serious :o
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they shud promote me to gamedesigner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DybrM4CSNy4
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xddddddddddddddddddd yolo ;00000000
But that the purpose of melee weapons.. If i manage to close the gap, and get at melee range catching you off guard with a melee weapon, you certainly deserve to die...
So you're telling me, the game's maps mostly composed of close quarter city maps, a melee guy somehow closes the gap on me on a city map, I deserve to die? :o
Melee its countered by playing carefully, choosing good positions, having support from teammates.
On a 1 vs 1 scenario, melee will always win...only chance is if he takes voodoo and runs around till they both get winded and now finally shooter can shoot back.
I can agree that melee do damage too fast, so its very hard to react against. But the problem is that if the damage gets lowered it will be too easy to escape from a melee attacker.
I'm not suggesting to lower damage (although maybe reducing the bleed would be nice), only to make it more costly in SEC, Action points, and add reload cost. Currently ripper is just non stop swing swing swing
What's can be done, in my opinion, its to rework melee so they do less damage, but locks enemies (suppression, chance to immobilize or whatever) so enemy cannot escape so easy and have to choose if fight or try to escape.
That's why some weapons have auto knockback or knockout...I can understand why super sledge has auto knockdown but doesn't hit as hard when using swing.
Ripper, Supersledge, and aimed Powerfist are the only HtH weapons that are arguably achieving that objective.
MPF is also a useable weapon in PvP and IMO its too strong. I mean it causes auto-knockback so if target is inside a room, it will deal extra damage and it already does an average of 80-100 on punch (not mega-punch).
Just look how Komrade gets fucked (https://youtu.be/U4vrc3Nht1A?t=1385) by the MPF. I've also experienced this and caused it too others. 4 hits can easily bring someone to 350 --> - # so MPF should just get a nerf (removing auto knockback and add 20% knockback and lowering damage IMO).
nah mega powerfist is fine , the attacks are high ap costly while rippers isnt , also mpf got a balanced sizeclip also reload cost and second firemod has over 1 sec speedtime aimtime attacktime whatever so its not the best option , once i tried to mess around with it some target was outside of a room 3 hexes or 2 just i tried to superpunch him but was getting almsot rekt by other players becasue my char didnt attacked instantly ... i think mega powerfist is good balanced. super cattleprod needs buff and ripper needs nerfs with instacripples low ap cost etc , ripper is destryoing the usage of all other melee weapons...
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Oh, well I had better restrict myself to only running in wide open spaces for fear of being outplayed in the cramped city and all its buildings with its many corners and sight blockers.
anyone wants me, I'll be stood in the centre of eastern. I have to stay away from buildings or I deserve death.
I'm not a numbers guy. I don't know what's required to change, but I do feel like something needs too. The rate of damage being changed may help a lot, like you say. But being stun locked? I'm not sure that will make my ass hurt any less.
I get the points youre making SnowCrash, but at the same time I feel like you missed my point.
like I said, part of HTH is getting close enough to use it. I think we agree on that. But the way I see it, it aint that hard to do so. And no, I'm not asking for a 50% chance of winning/escaping death. I'm asking for just a chance, at least a chance to survive when the sneak pops into view 5 hexs away and laughs as I fumble for the trigger. Or rushes through the door and runs headlong into me.
@Teela
Yes, thank you. The shotguns seem to be the best choice for sg users but it still never quite seemed enough.
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I don't always cry. But when I do, I cry about rippers and Ramon.
I don't want HTH to become useless, not at all. And I wouldn't necessarily say it's OP, I agree with sexpert there. Buuut, at the same time I struggle staying silent on the matter when I have felt it, experienced the pain myself. It always feels cheap.
I'm packing gear worth thousands of caps for all different manner of situations. But I require at least a few seconds to make a play. Equip/throw grenade, equip a more suitable weapon. Anything! But all this guy has to do is rip me to pieces, break my arm and I'm like. :(
Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic.
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Been thinking about it. I'm coming at this all wrong.
I asked myself why do I hate it in its current state so much.
My answer was something like, "Cuz dey always get me while um alone minding mah own business"
And there it is, alone. Everything I complain about here changes when you throw an ally into the mix...Or it should change, assuming we don't fk it up and the ripper gets us both.
Alone, 1v1 ripper is strong. HTH in general is I guess.
I have seen hth succeed in larger fights, more often in a supporting role. but once outnumbered the tables generally turn...hm...yes...
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Told you :P
Melee its countered by playing carefully, choosing good positions, having support from teammates.
But also i was also thinking about. May be what's makes ripper so strong its that can insta cripple, even from first strike... so maybe make the cripple chance progressively increase with every hit.
Or something like that cripple chance will depends on remaining life of target, less life, more chance.
So first hits leave chance to scape or counter play
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Use Pancor to remove ripper wielding scum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVXJmfd3cmg&list=PLE3oUPGlbxnK516pl4i256e4Nx4j2qL2c&index=5
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(Personal best, not including damage inflicted without obtaining the kill)
Supporting role with ripper.
11 Kills in 1 day.
Average life span was much greater too.
I have never been so effective, and I tried every SG and BG there is.
Destroyed SPA wearer in mere seconds, and took 0 damage in return.
And my build isn't even the best it could be.
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Please add a AP cost to reload ripper.
A one second reload animation is hardly a cost.
Or change the amount of rips to 15/20 instead of 30....Preferably an AP cost to reload.
I'm all over the place in this thread, I just cant make up my mind.
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One time I was exploring the core and encountered a lone vtec with a combat shotgun in leather armor, I had a colt with high crit chance and trick shooter. I shot his weapon out of his hands and he immediately flips to ripper and gets close so I started running. He was 3 hexes behind me so when I regained AP and tried to fire he ripped me several times before I could get off a shot and died.
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Why haven't devs done anything to ripper yet >:(
Also changing the sound to more of a chainsaw like on FO2 would be gud :V
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Also changing the sound to more of a chainsaw like on FO2 would be gud :V
+1, right now its like fiddling with a pair of scissors
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Tactics sound will be good
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ripper_%28Fallout_Tactics%29
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Tactics sound will be good
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ripper_%28Fallout_Tactics%29
Maybe so. Tactics assets are off limits, me thinks...
Almekone.
[Edit] Maybe this. (I like Rip_2)
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Tactics sound will be good
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ripper_%28Fallout_Tactics%29
Maybe so. Tactics assets are off limits, me thinks...
Almekone.
[Edit] Maybe this. (I like Rip_2)
Yeah, that's the one FO2 uses, and RIP 2 sounds the best
or this one (https://youtu.be/cC3Gil_8-dA?t=1)
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Tactics sound will be good
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ripper_%28Fallout_Tactics%29
Maybe so. Tactics assets are off limits, me thinks...
Almekone.
[Edit] Maybe this. (I like Rip_2)
Yeah, that's the one FO2 uses, and RIP 2 sounds the best
or this one (https://youtu.be/cC3Gil_8-dA?t=1)
None of the samples I uploaded are used.
Cirn said something about alternating between them, so its not same sample every time ripper strikes.
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Cool! Those sounds will realy fit. And playing them at random will be great.
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Maybe add a special perk to the ripper:
-difficult start:
each time it's drawn (changing weapon), the weapon will be showed as jammed and need multiple reloads (1-4) to be ready to use.
it can also slowly use secs while equiped.