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[Stem Sunders]

The more I think on this post the more I think the vets are right here.

They have seen all the others and perhaps know what's best for keeping some form of balance?...Or they want all the power for themselves :p but I very much doubt its that petty.

[mAdman]

OK, as far as prior examples go, (I played fonline a bit, but not for pvp for example), I really am out of my depth, as I have not been a part of the fonline pvp community (up until now I guess). So I will have to defer to your greater knowledge of these things but,

As you say people who play the rambo and the coward in these no gain pvp training areas will likely be the same ones doing it in real pvp, and thus people can identify and avoid them before they ruin an entire ZC and get 15 people killed.

As for trial by fire or the "deep end" theory, yeah it works somewhat, especially with people who enjoy greater difficulty learning curves. But getting slaughtered by greater numbers and tactics repeatedly teaches most little to nothing besides that they need to change factions to stand a chance.

[Armadingo]

Training in safe environment, no loot - safe/free gear and so on in most cases gives very bad habits that will lead to fast death (ramboing). Also it is very common to see people who usually fight bravely in first line in such places to still stay at back of their team or being first to run/hide because they are not used to losing gear.

I am getting mixed signals here, you say they will get a habit of rushing and running away?
Running away from a battle isn't a bad thing if you know you are losing, it's no good to sacrifice your life for nothing.

Best way to learn it is to learn it the hard way.

I can agree with that, but I still think we should have a place where we can fight each other in the faction without losing reputation.

Simple combat related things you can train with friends on assignments, ok npcs are stupid and ai is abusable but still you can try making lines, taking covers, positioning in windows, even healing friends under fire, providing covering fire and such.

No the AI is way too foolish for that, all they do is rush up to your face and shoot. Only tactic you learn is luring.

[mojuk]

I am getting mixed signals here, you say they will get a habit of rushing and running away?
Running away from a battle isn't a bad thing if you know you are losing, it's no good to sacrifice your life for nothing.

Mhm. It usually applies to rushing/chasing single enemy (very often a bait or scout) that in most cases leads to death of the attacker. Also trying to fight without support with group of enemies by windows or doors.
As for running away... no it's not ok to run away if the rest of your team is still fighting. If in situation when 8 of you face 10 you decide that it's lost and start running away it's 7 vs 10, than 2 more will see you running = 5 vs 10 so enemy will just run over your teammates now just for you to have a chance to escape. That's not the best teamwork example wouldn't you say? That's the running away I was referring to. Same goes for hiding. If in 10 vs 10 open space fight there will be 3 people in one team that after first shots will decide to take cover, heal, regen ap than it's 7 vs 10 again.

No the AI is way too foolish for that, all they do is rush up to your face and shoot. Only tactic you learn is luring.

Sure, if you lure 1 npc, kill it with few friends, lure another one then it does not sound interesting at all.
You see only npc running forward and luring but what more do you need?

If lured well you can train making lines to share fov (field of view) for windows, enemies passing corner so that when one person see enemy you all can shot at him, not only half of people standing in line.
Make line up, lure as many npc as you can without dying and you can practice a lot of things: focusing fire (also choosing primary targets very fast), helping friends in need (learn to know when it's better to give first aid to somebody or provide covering fire/eliminate attacker) and many more, really.

You have a chance to learn how move in group (always somebody with high perception in front, bursters behind him so that they don't have to run 20 more hexes (possibly under enemy line) just to go in front of all snipers running first), take position when you spotted enemy (to avoid heavy burster deploying at back of your team or everyone standing in front of burster line), cutting fov while running.

Even standing npc can be of a good use. You know where npc is "on GO! we run 4 hex right, make a line up, shot and go back, 3, 2, 1, GO!" see how it goes and repeat. Same goes for making lines with same fov in windows.

Learn to rush corners. Very important, not many teams does it good or remember to do it the right way during fight.

As you can see there is a lot to do even without shooting, all you need is just few people, map and some free time.  Thinking that if you get to shoot 10k bullets in training room will make you better fighter is wrong

[Armadingo]

As for running away... no it's not ok to run away if the rest of your team is still fighting. If in situation when 8 of you face 10 you decide that it's lost and start running away it's 7 vs 10(...)

If you're fighting while outnumbered, you're taking a big risk if you don't have an advantage. It's objectively a bad idea to go against odds, those who keep fighting doesn't know any better. Run and recover before you lose your equipment and stand no chance later on, don't let the strong become stronger.
Of course it's bad teamwork to split the team, therefore everyone should run when it looks grim.

Same goes for hiding.

No, dead bodies are more useless than people recovering.

(...)You have a chance to learn how move in group(...)

I'll give you that, that's a good argument.

Thinking that if you get to shoot 10k bullets in training room will make you better fighter is wrong

Of course not. I was thinking if players were pitted against each other it would be more of a battle of wits, where you can learn about a bit more advanced combat.