Author Topic: Sneak theory  (Read 5853 times)

mAdman

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Sneak theory
« on: July 04, 2016, 07:10:18 AM »

Simple kind of theory in regards to the potential of sneakers, to remove their potential to access high alpha damage weapons, and relegate them to crowd control weaponry or low alpha damage (spam or bleed) kind of weaponry, by simply making a player unable to sneak while having particular weapons in their inventory.

Another method could be to directly convert a percentage of the flat damage dealt while sneaking into bleed, meaning that at least the first shot from a non stealth weapon won't have such a high alpha impact (and sneak weapons could be modified to suit the idea).

The general idea being to keep sneaking fun and useful, while cutting out their ability to just outright kill full health non sneaking players and run in relative safety.

Giving an opponent at the very least some time to react and respond, by forcing a sneakers damage potential to be spread out over a certain amount of time I think would have a great impact on their capabilities and how they will be utilised, especially when they are alone.

In particular low damage but reliable crowd control sneakers could still potentially make a substantial impact in combat, by crippling or disabling targets during opportunistic moments (with the many options already available), or finishing already heavily damaged targets, while being able to utilise their sneaking and speed to retain hit and run combat tactics.

Apologies in advance, I know this has already been discussed at great length, and I have not posted myself in a long while, but while I love sneaking and it is my favorite role for various reasons, I can understand why people who play tanks in particular hate them with a passion. I think by simply making them unable to access weapons based on dealing high damage very quickly (as long as that list is) could help to manage the ideals of being a sneak based player to begin with.

So hold the salt please,  8) it is just a concept I thought worth discussing.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 12:11:50 PM by mAdman »
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 10:17:09 AM »

Try different games if you dont have any trust in your reaction time

For example
Spoiler for Hiden:

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FrankenStone-MKII

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 10:49:15 AM »

00010001
As Decimal: 17
As Binary: 00010001
As Hexadecimal: 11
Bits: 8
As Equation: 16 + 1
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 05:17:00 PM by FrankenStone-MKII »
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2016, 12:49:26 PM »

Try different games if you dont have any trust in your reaction time

For example
Spoiler for Hiden:


LMAO LOL LOOOOOL, good one man, so funny, you should do standup, because mentally disabled children ARE hilarious. 10/10, would pay to see again, voice of a generation here.

Not really, I kind of hope you die painfully, like in a fire, or from blunt forced trauma to your organs and crotch.

I don't think I have ever wished death on someone before, so congratulations, you just busted my cherry in that regard.

Quality meme though, your family would be proud.

Have anything at all reasonable to say, or did you just come here to insight hate?
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S1mancoder

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2016, 03:27:43 PM »

Have anything at all reasonable to say, or did you just come here to insight hate?

What he wanted to say: current sneak can be countered by good reaction time shoting sneaker back, he will suffer huge damage due to sneak penalty. You only can die to DPS sneaker if you have very low damaging weapon or very bad reaction time + no teammates to cover.
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2016, 04:13:15 PM »

LMAO LOL LOOOOOL, good one man, so funny, you should do standup, because mentally disabled children ARE hilarious. 10/10, would pay to see again, voice of a generation here.

Not really, I kind of hope you die painfully, like in a fire, or from blunt forced trauma to your organs and crotch.

I don't think I have ever wished death on someone before, so congratulations, you just busted my cherry in that regard.

Quality meme though, your family would be proud.

Have anything at all reasonable to say, or did you just come here to insight hate?

« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 04:24:33 PM by RazorRamon »
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2016, 05:59:56 PM »


What he wanted to say: current sneak can be countered by good reaction time shoting sneaker back, he will suffer huge damage due to sneak penalty. You only can die to DPS sneaker if you have very low damaging weapon or very bad reaction time + no teammates to cover.

Thanks for the response.

I don't know why bad reaction time even came into the argument, I was specifically talking about high ping, or in general the ping gap, which is generally the reason I am forced into certain roles, that is all personal and beside the point I guess really.

In almost any scenario I am going to end up playing a sneak as my main, so I will adapt to whatever changes are made regardless.

Part of the thought that spurred the general idea was actually at my victims end of the spectrum, where if they might have a bad ping or even average ping, the second or two difference between a weapon that deals all of its damage immediately and one that doesn't might stop a lot of the fuss about being killed instantly out of nowhere. (That's not to say that it is like that here and now, but the general idea).

But that is only part of it, the other side is just taking sneakers out of the highest alpha damage range to solidify the distinction between sneaking and not (and in particular make attacking as a sneaker without support very tricky).

Sorry to ramble on, like I said it is just a concept, I am going to have a great time testing things out after this wipe I hear of (or is that some joke I am misreading?) either way. :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 06:06:19 PM by mAdman »
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S1mancoder

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2016, 07:00:14 PM »

the ping gap

Almost no influence on combat. Average ping on AoP is 50-400 ms, considering TTK time of at least (in extreme rare cases!) 3000 ms but ususally about 5000ms that ping difference of average of 100ms is not deciding anything. I myself live directly opposite to server in northern hemisphere and still have ping about 180.

The deciding thing is that some players have reaction time of 2000-3000 ms (I myself can have it under certain conditions aswell) that is enough for them to die without literally doing anything against sneaker.

For example Ramon's often seen plasma rifle build kills enemy from 6-7 shots, that with sound of charge time gives target 1000 + 700 * 6 = 5200 ms to react to danger (by shooting back, healing yourself or going to cover).
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 07:02:27 PM by S1mancoder »
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Teela

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2016, 07:54:17 PM »

Ice cold. But yes. Ramon melted me before and it works like this.

I'm usually not paying attention to the dialogue box. And in mid combat as a sg sniper I'm also not focused on my own surroundings. From animation and enemy position I figure out who's shooting me and from the sound I figure out what's shooting me and how long I have to live. Then, if a snek with a plasma rifle pops out from somewhere I'm not looking he's going to get like 3 or 4 shots before I even realize I'm being shot at. Then by the time I find the culprit we're 2 shots further and I'm all happy in my puddle of goo. Might feel like its instant. But its not. Solid 5 seconds reaction time :)

I know no other game aside from online chess that has such a level playing field in terms of lag. Anything between 5 and 500 ms is perfectly playable. Worst thing that can happen is losing AP without taking the shot or getting gibbed before spawning when the grid is being camped. Game play is rather slow, so whatever ping gap there might be, plenty of opportunity to save your ass by playing well.

And above all. Mongoloids are fucking funny.
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RazorRamon:
i literally have 卐TÜRKENJÄGER1488卐 tattooed on my back

Count Matthew

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2016, 08:21:44 PM »

Try different games if you dont have any trust in your reaction time

For example
Spoiler for Hiden:


Delete this post Ramon.

It's disgusting.
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2016, 09:41:46 PM »

If everything that offends you was deleted, this forum would be empty
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powerplay

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2016, 06:21:40 AM »

and this is reason why im still reading this forum even tho i dont play it anymore  ;D ;D keep going guys, its fun to read  ;D
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FrankenStone-MKII

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2016, 06:29:31 AM »

what for you need low ping when there is no real pc enemi to shuut ?
bedda faap.

Spoiler for Hiden:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 06:31:24 AM by FrankenStone-MKII »
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2016, 07:26:53 AM »


100ms is not deciding anything.

Being on the 400 ping end of the spectrum I would disagree there, there is a noticable difference between someone on below 100 ping and myself. Particularly with shots that are "lost" (ap lost) due to a target moving in and out of view through a window or what not, perhaps you do not notice it as 180 is substantially better than 400, and perhaps the difference is marginal considering I have never had under 200 ping, it is hard to tell really.

The deciding thing is that some players have reaction time of 2000-3000 ms (I myself can have it under certain conditions aswell) that is enough for them to die without literally doing anything against sneaker.

Sure, that is what I was getting at, if the system works now and people aren't being killed in under 3000 ms by a single sneaker then that is great to hear, I am sure once you add multiple sneakers to the equation that changes substantially, but I guess that is acceptable? I am not sure, but I remember running around phoenix with multiple sneakers in the past so that wouldn't be anything new (sneak sniper lines etc).

If everything that offends you was deleted, this forum would be empty

Nah, it just wouldn't have you and a few others in it.

But keep up the super cool memes man, it really shows your personality, or lack there of, to us all.

And above all. Mongoloids are fucking funny.

Yeah and dementia, and MS, and brain damage, and strokes, and skin color, all so hilarious guys, that is why you are only brave enough to spout this shit on this particular fonline forum and in game, instead of in your professional life.

But its because its so funny here and now right? And not because you have some complex where you have to justify your rampant toxicity? And surely not because anonymity is providing you with a place to hide while you talk absolute trash for little to no reason.

Just fucking sad, here's to hoping someone you love is afflicted with the diseases and conditions you mock. Should be twice as funny to you then.

Nigger jokes next? Or are we gonna move on up to some faggot jokes in a deluxe apartment in the sky? Or wait some kid just lost his legs to a landmine, quick lets use his suffering to get a cheap laugh.

Stay classy.
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clochard

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2016, 09:01:31 AM »

"you can laugh about absolutely anything, but not with everyone."
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Teela

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2016, 01:12:26 PM »


100ms is not deciding anything.

Being on the 400 ping end of the spectrum I would disagree there, there is a noticable difference between someone on below 100 ping and myself. Particularly with shots that are "lost" (ap lost) due to a target moving in and out of view through a window or what not, perhaps you do not notice it as 180 is substantially better than 400, and perhaps the difference is marginal considering I have never had under 200 ping, it is hard to tell really.

The deciding thing is that some players have reaction time of 2000-3000 ms (I myself can have it under certain conditions aswell) that is enough for them to die without literally doing anything against sneaker.

Sure, that is what I was getting at, if the system works now and people aren't being killed in under 3000 ms by a single sneaker then that is great to hear, I am sure once you add multiple sneakers to the equation that changes substantially, but I guess that is acceptable? I am not sure, but I remember running around phoenix with multiple sneakers in the past so that wouldn't be anything new (sneak sniper lines etc).

If everything that offends you was deleted, this forum would be empty

Nah, it just wouldn't have you and a few others in it.

But keep up the super cool memes man, it really shows your personality, or lack there of, to us all.

And above all. Mongoloids are fucking funny.

Yeah and dementia, and MS, and brain damage, and strokes, and skin color, all so hilarious guys, that is why you are only brave enough to spout this shit on this particular fonline forum and in game, instead of in your professional life.

But its because its so funny here and now right? And not because you have some complex where you have to justify your rampant toxicity? And surely not because anonymity is providing you with a place to hide while you talk absolute trash for little to no reason.

Just fucking sad, here's to hoping someone you love is afflicted with the diseases and conditions you mock. Should be twice as funny to you then.

Nigger jokes next? Or are we gonna move on up to some faggot jokes in a deluxe apartment in the sky? Or wait some kid just lost his legs to a landmine, quick lets use his suffering to get a cheap laugh.

Stay classy.

Personally I was thinking more along the lines of skin cancer or leukemia.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 01:16:31 PM by Teela »
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RazorRamon:
i literally have 卐TÜRKENJÄGER1488卐 tattooed on my back

FrankenStone-MKII

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2016, 01:53:11 PM »

well there is great difference between some pingvalues, especially on aop even when it doenst has any onhex competetion.

for example with 100 something ping u can move without directly from deployed anim to walking anim without any interruptions , if u got higher ping this is not possible.

many other stuff probably aswell similar to this example like mentioned with typical cvet client server client magik ... better science it.
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mAdman

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Re: Sneak theory
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2016, 06:48:53 PM »

well there is great difference between some pingvalues, especially on aop even when it doenst has any onhex competetion.

for example with 100 something ping u can move without directly from deployed anim to walking anim without any interruptions , if u got higher ping this is not possible.

many other stuff probably aswell similar to this example like mentioned with typical cvet client server client magik ... better science it.

Yeah it seems to be a significant enough difference from my experience, but I have learned to play around it in ways over time as it only really effects certain activities or actions (most notably and particularly unavoidable is the laggy running whenever shot on most fonline servers).

Again that was only part of the reasoning in any case, there's not much that can really be done about it overall so it was only ever really a secondary point.

The main motivator for the suggestion stems not only from the common complaints against sneakers but from my own meta gaming principles where I look for the best potential damage outputs for a role, and take any crowd control effects as secondary. Removing the ability to use high flat damage weapons is just a direct way of forcing someone like myself to reconsider how they go about their build and gameplay, in a good way.

Another method could be to convert a percentage of the flat damage dealt while sneaking into bleed, it would be a much simpler way of doing it ideally.
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