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Author Topic: Sneaker / Pistol situation  (Read 14487 times)

Niamak

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2016, 03:42:32 AM »

I find it funny that everyone was amazed by the performance of sneakers in last video when they could have done a better job if they rolled combat character with any kind of pistol (maybe colt).

There was no sneaking around, they didn't hide from enemy sight range, they just flanked around from outside and fought inside a building within sneak detection range.

They only performed well because they went in last, made a line of fire, shot the same target and enemy came one by one. Pretty basic FOnline.

Same could be said for waki, machete can do 200 dmg per hit (direct dmg + bleed) and doesn't require to be behind the target.

But yeah, let's hate sneaker. #nerfsneak
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 03:44:37 AM by Niamak »
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artaman

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2016, 09:59:53 AM »

I find it funny that everyone was amazed by the performance of sneakers in last video when they could have done a better job if they rolled combat character with any kind of pistol (maybe colt).

There was no sneaking around, they didn't hide from enemy sight range, they just flanked around from outside and fought inside a building within sneak detection range.

They only performed well because they went in last, made a line of fire, shot the same target and enemy came one by one. Pretty basic FOnline.

Same could be said for waki, machete can do 200 dmg per hit (direct dmg + bleed) and doesn't require to be behind the target.

But yeah, let's hate sneaker. #nerfsneak

i am of agree with the Niamak and with Happy Ghost Man. in conjunction with it must be remembered that out cry is from just 2 (two) hot head participants of the resulting only 1 (one) battle scrimmage where situation personal loss occurred and must be perceived as a rabble-rouser troublemaker goblin response!
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Kurwier

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 12:20:04 PM »

i dont know where u see focus fire , needler is op against regular combat chars , look on the dmg 50 per hit no aimtime ko and whatever criteffects ... non spa guys died like flees. bonus speed from minus ap is also bullshit you cant even get them with melee weapon then.
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Niamak

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2016, 01:48:15 PM »

i dont know where u see focus fire , needler is op against regular combat chars , look on the dmg 50 per hit no aimtime ko and whatever criteffects ... non spa guys died like flees. bonus speed from minus ap is also bullshit you cant even get them with melee weapon then.

Spoiler for Hiden:
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Kurwier

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2016, 02:37:49 PM »

your photoshop skills terible and if u look close u see many lines arent alligned with direction the player looks at so gg and better ragequit
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cirn0

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2016, 02:57:17 PM »

Just going to disect the scenario by miliseconds with handy dandy facts of combat log!

2:26:56: Teela Hits Dirty Zen For 62
2:27:08: Teela Hits Dirty Zen For 61
2:27:10: Ramon Hits Dirty Zen For 11
2:27:10: Ramon Hits Dirty Zen For 75
2:27:18: Ramon Hits Dirty Zen For 22
2:27:20: Teela Hits Dirty Zen For 37
2:27:26: Ramon Hits Dirty Zen For 41
2:27:26: clochard Hits Dirty Zen For 46
2:27:34: Ramon Hits Dirty Zen For 52
2:27:34: clochard Hits Dirty Zen For 42
2:27:34: Teela Hits Dirty Zen For 67
2:27:34: Teela Kills Dirty Zen

Collect fire from Teela, Ramon, and Clochard on Dirty Zen. Killed in 38 seconds in game time (1.9s realtime).

2:28:04: Data Hits Orshabaal For 44
2:28:04: Data Cripples Orshabaal
2:28:05: Orshabaal Hits Teela For 13
2:28:05: Orshabaal Hits Teela For 19
2:28:09: clochard Hits Orshabaal For 35
2:28:13: Data Hits Orshabaal For 69
2:28:13: Data Cripples Orshabaal
2:28:17: clochard Hits Orshabaal For 31
2:28:21: Data Hits Orshabaal For 62
2:28:21: Data Cripples Orshabaal
2:28:24: sylvicius Hits Orshabaal For 34
2:28:25: clochard Hits Orshabaal For 31
2:28:26: Hawk_ Hits MsSniper For 73
2:28:29: Data Hits Orshabaal For 58
2:28:29: Data Cripples Orshabaal
2:28:33: sylvicius Hits Orshabaal For 94
2:28:33: sylvicius Cripples Orshabaal
2:28:33: clochard Hits Orshabaal For 50
2:28:33: clochard Kills Orshabaal

Collect fire from Data, slyvicius, and Clochard on Orshabaal. Killed in 18 seconds in game time (0.9s).

2:28:38: Data Hits Hawk_ For 26
2:28:39: Hawk_ Hits MsSniper For 113
2:28:39: Hawk_ Kills MsSniper
2:28:42: Vulture Hits Hawk_ For 43
2:28:42: Vulture Cripples Hawk_
2:28:55: Komrade Hits Teela For 74
2:28:55: Komrade Cripples Teela
2:29:03: Vulture Hits Hawk_ For 53
2:29:04: sylvicius Hits Hawk_ For 56
2:29:11: Vulture Hits Hawk_ For 39
2:29:11: Vulture Cripples Hawk_
2:29:26: Data Hits Hawk_ For 31
2:29:26: Data Cripples Hawk_
2:29:26: Data Kills Hawk_

Collect fire from Data, slyvicius, and Vulture on Hawk_ . Killed in 48 seconds in game time (2.4s).

2:29:56: Teela Hits Komrade For 56
2:30:07: Data Hits Cpt Courier For 4
2:30:11: Cpt Courier Hits Teela For 96
2:30:15: Data Hits Cpt Courier For 9
2:30:24: Ramon Hits Cpt Courier For 10
2:30:32: Ramon Hits Cpt Courier For 12
2:30:41: Ramon Hits Cpt Courier For 12
2:31:13: Data Hits Cpt Courier For 12

First Data and Ramon wastes shots on CptCourier for 65 seconds in game ( 3.25s )

2:31:41: Data Hits Komrade For 31
2:32:04: Teela Hits Komrade For 57
2:32:25: Ara Bro Hits Teela For 129
2:32:29: Komrade Hits Data For 100
2:33:13: Cpt Courier Hits Teela For 175
2:33:13: Cpt Courier Cripples Teela
2:33:32: Ara Bro Hits Teela For 136
2:33:32: Ara Bro Kills Teela
2:33:42: Vulture Hits Komrade For 39
2:33:50: Vulture Hits Komrade For 29
2:33:58: Vulture Hits Komrade For 27
2:33:58: Vulture Cripples Komrade
2:34:06: Vulture Hits Komrade For 30
2:34:16: Vulture Hits Komrade For 45
2:34:16: Vulture Cripples Komrade
2:34:29: Komrade Hits Vulture For 26
2:34:29: Komrade Hits Vulture For 92
2:34:31: Cpt Courier Hits Data For 220
2:34:31: Cpt Courier Cripples Data
2:34:34: Ramon Hits Komrade For 120
2:34:42: Ramon Hits Komrade For 69
2:34:49: Cpt Courier Hits Data For 164
2:34:50: Ramon Hits Komrade For 99
2:34:50: Ramon Cripples Komrade
2:34:58: Ramon Hits Komrade For 127
2:34:58: Ramon Kills Komrade

Collect fire from Teela, Vulture, Ramon on Komrade. Killed in 3 minutes and 17 seconds in game time (6.8s).

2:36:01: sylvicius Hits Ara Bro For 68
2:36:09: sylvicius Hits Ara Bro For 55
2:36:09: sylvicius Cripples Ara Bro
2:36:17: sylvicius Hits Ara Bro For 74
2:36:19: Teela Exits Zone With Equipment Value of 0
2:36:26: sylvicius Hits Ara Bro For 67
2:36:53: Ramon Hits Ara Bro For 42
2:37:01: clochard Hits Ara Bro For 67
2:37:01: Ramon Hits Ara Bro For 53
2:37:01: Ramon Kills Ara Bro

Collect fire from sylvicius , clochard , Ramon on Ara Bro. Killed in 1 minutes in game time (3s).


2:37:20: Ramon Hits Cpt Courier For 2
...
3:03:26: Ramon Kills Cpt Courier

Collect fire from the 4 sneakers for 23 minutes and 6 seconds in game to kill 1 sPA ( 1 minutes 1 second ).

So yes Tech/Law did focus fire.
The needler is in-fact OP.
This isn't a sneak issue.

I've already added aimtime back to aimed shots for pistols. Just haven't patched since no server crash for a week.


Also
29:07: Ramon Enters Zone With Equipment Value of 1641
4:45:37: Ramon Exits Zone With Equipment Value of 11301
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 03:07:20 PM by cirn0 »
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Niamak

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2016, 03:02:30 PM »

I was pretty close.
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Kurwier

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2016, 03:20:40 PM »

me too :D

Also
29:07: Ramon Enters Zone With Equipment Value of 1641
4:45:37: Ramon Exits Zone With Equipment Value of 11301

almost 1:10 ratio no joke and i didnt have to look in log , man im such a gud guy ... praise the sun

im looking forward to the patch -cheers
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 03:24:47 PM by FrankenStone »
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Count Matthew

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2016, 03:42:34 PM »

I've been saying this for the last week but didn't have any evidence.

Thanks Cirn0.

Now Colty McColtface
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2016, 04:40:28 PM »

i was using legendary needler cirn0

equipment value has lost all meaning this late in the season, lets make a simple comparison:
how much is a legendary needler worth in your value calculation? probably 400 caps like a clean needler, possibly even less due to detoriation
and how much value do super stimpaks add? 75 caps each

how long does it take to make one legendary needler? several hours of pvp and downtime in between, not to mention you lose all effort should you die
and how long does it take to farm super stimpaks? you can get several HUNDREDS in one hour on hospital lvl 2, if you die you can just quickly come back and grab your stuff


also the only thing too strong is the AP ammo, dont nerf needler as a whole, only adress the real problem
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cirn0

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2016, 04:43:25 PM »

Reminds me to add a multiplier to legendary item value.

Needler and its ammo is one in the same, the only thing that uses needler ammo is the needler, so its a simple change I can touch either without worrying about the implications on 30 other weapons.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 04:45:07 PM by cirn0 »
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2016, 05:21:21 PM »

Needler and its ammo is one in the same

No, not really

Nerf the weapon: use AP ammo or nothing
Nerf AP ammo: Player gets to choose between two different ammo types to fill two different roles

Also i really hate how bleed is calculated. Like Smalltime or someone on irc said bleed right now is just another word for hollow point ammo. Bleed should not always be just another multiplier thats applied to the direct damage done.
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John Porno

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2016, 08:11:58 PM »

well before the bleed change on 2015 new years, bleed completely ignored armor, which I actually really liked for gameplay purposes but it kinda doesnt make a lot of sense. Using bleed in the opposite way, dealing extra damage to unarmoed targets, actually allows us to have certain weapons deal a lot of damage on paper without it feeling like people are getting instakilled.

I think we should further expand on the idea of combining high healing rate, high bleed resist and dmg to bleed conversion as the agressive player's defence. Kill first, heal later.
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2016, 08:54:51 PM »

what im saying is not all weapons that inflict bleed have to behave in the same way

you could make some weapons that inflict a fixed amount of bleed per shot if that shot does any damage.
The result is a weapon that can fight heavy armored targets and at the same time doesnt instashrek low armors
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Kurwier

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2016, 09:26:33 PM »

what im saying is not all weapons that inflict bleed have to behave in the same way

you could make some weapons that inflict a fixed amount of bleed per shot if that shot does any damage.
The result is a weapon that can fight heavy armored targets and at the same time doesnt instashrek low armors

sounds like same shit idea like no aimtime for pistols and we all know the results , if u want to kill heavy armored characters take a combat char ...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 09:29:27 PM by FrankenStone »
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2016, 09:34:08 PM »

cryier pls
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Kurwier

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2016, 09:35:55 PM »

cryier pls

what u want nigga , i read your suggestion like give something to kill spa even faster with paperbuilds. soz
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RazorRamon

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2016, 09:37:42 PM »

where did i say something about weapons for paper builds?
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Kurwier

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2016, 09:41:25 PM »

where did i say something about weapons for paper builds?

how do you think a fixed amount of bleed will work on no paper armors but in same time not on paper armors , maybe i dont understand the magic behind it ?
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John Porno

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Re: Sneaker / Pistol situation
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2016, 08:56:54 AM »

what im saying is not all weapons that inflict bleed have to behave in the same way

you could make some weapons that inflict a fixed amount of bleed per shot if that shot does any damage.
The result is a weapon that can fight heavy armored targets and at the same time doesnt instashrek low armors
Exactly, I'm annoyed too that I have no way right now of putting fixed bleed on weapons. Cirn pls fix
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