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[paragon]

The reasons why no new players in AoP world:

1. No advertising. People just don't know that it exists
2. Time consuming for getting into pvp
3. Time consuming for getting playable character (as well as complicated character creation mechanics, unforgiving for lack of knowledge)
4. Hard, not-intuitive controls.

5. As a result of those and low-player base, increased requirements for player-to-player interaction / being in team

6. Team balance issue.

[nailbrain]

aah 5 REROLLS
?

[naossano]

The reasons why no new players in AoP world:

1. No advertising. People just don't know that it exists
2. Time consuming for getting into pvp
3. Time consuming for getting playable character (as well as complicated character creation mechanics, unforgiving for lack of knowledge)
4. Hard, not-intuitive controls.

5. As a result of those and low-player base, increased requirements for player-to-player interaction / being in team

6. Team balance issue.

Are you sure you are talking about AOP ?
AOP is 100% the opposite of what you are saying.
(at least compared with 2238, Fo2 and Reloaded)

[paragon]

Yes, I'm sure. I played Fonlines for 1 year. When I came to AoP:

1. I was the only one from all people I talk to IRL knowing that it exists
2. Wasted dozens of hours waiting/searching for enemy (even in time with 150 people online)
3. I needed more than a week of very active gameplay (more like two) to learn about mechanics to be effective. (pretty sure new commers will need more), had to create character planner for it
4. I needed to use AutoHotkey to make make controls less suffering
5. Had to write recruitment posts on the forum and encourage everyone in-game in join VoiP
6. Have been called a swarmer.

You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players.

[Komrade]

Yes, I'm sure. I played Fonlines for 1 year. When I came to AoP:

1. I was the only one from all people I talk to IRL knowing that it exists
2. Wasted dozens of hours waiting/searching for enemy (even in time with 150 people online)
3. I needed more than a week of very active gameplay (more like two) to learn about mechanics to be effective. (pretty sure new commers will need more), had to create character planner for it
4. I needed to use AutoHotkey to make make controls less suffering
5. Had to write recruitment posts on the forum and encourage everyone in-game in join VoiP
6. Have been called a swarmer.

You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players.

1. ??
2. You must be joking, even if you didnt camp gates there were always players at PD and Warmart to kill. No seriously, even with 80 players there were players to kill.
3. That's kinda right play more time, learn more, fight better, improve yourself. Also here you dont need excel based builds to win, my first char is also my main did 2-3 rerolls to make him more versatile and its ok.
4. Agree completely
5. Immershun breaker
6. But you still are. Maybe if you was in another faction things could be different. I though you was fine with it             

[FrankenStone]

Drama continoues , Cirnwa we need server back to settle some things ingame

[Stem Sunders]

""The reasons why no new players in AoP world:""

""<1. No advertising. People just don't know that it exists""

Can't really say much about this one, I heard about reloaded and AoP from the same source on YouTube.
Did many Fonlines receive much advertising? I should imagine a lot of it was left up to the fans?

""<2. Time consuming for getting into pvp>""

How do you mean? Its the same for the other Fonlines too.
If not a little less here, I found I could jump into PvP day 1 on this server.(But for the lags)
Whereas others I'd have to spend some hours/days grinding gathering buying/selling before I could even think about challenging other players at will.

""<3. Time consuming for getting playable character (as well as complicated character creation mechanics, unforgiving for lack of knowledge)>""

Its the same for every new game with new mechanics ever.
The only reason people may have had less of an issue with this on other servers is because a lot of it is copy pasted from its predecessor.
I kept being told AoP is "going to be a new game" And I think that stands as a good description.

<""4. Hard, not-intuitive controls."">

For a game based on source material from 1997, its pretty decent with the model AoP uses.
Its no more hard to grasp than the ones used elsewhere (Unless you have a Mod preference)

""<5. As a result of those and low-player base, increased requirements for player-to-player interaction / being in team>""

I don't get what any your above points have to do with "Player-to-player interaction" or being a team. This game does everything to promote team play, its a player fault if that isn't taken advantage of.

""<6. Team balance issue.>""

Again, thats something the player base should have fixed themselves imo.
People apparently just don't want to "play with noobs/randoms"

I relish open communities, otherwise everything feels closed off to outsiders and "NOOOOOBS"
Much how I felt loading up realoded or fo2 for the first month or so.
Many other players would have (And probably did) quit after their first few attempts of making progress in what is essentially a "Git gud or go home" community.
A "Do you have this build? no! Then you can't play with us." kinda place.
I've seen things of this nature happen a lot even to me.

If the servers were cycling thousands of players it may not be so bad, but as its is the servers combined average daily/weekly playerbase is what?
300-600? I would genuinely be surprised if it were more than that, it certainly never seemed so.

I would say a large portion of that is part of this closed community in closed factions, rarely ever interacting with any player...below them (in place of a better term)
With others wandering in and out of playing the game
The low influx of newbies joining and actually staying to the point where they are no longer new to the game and can start enjoying it in full, may and do leave before that time ever comes.

How long can three servers recycle the same player base? (I'm not sure if there is more than that.)

Now I'm not saying there aren't friendly players out there, concerned with something more than making sure the noobs know whos boss.

I hope you read and understand what I mean, and get back at me with some opinions.
Being a veteran as I understand you are? Newer Players like me look to Older players like you to lead the way.
A lot of negativity floats around, this I have come to understand.

[naossano]

1. I was the only one from all people I talk to IRL knowing that it exists

So is Fonline in General. I knew many people IRL that were unaware of Fallout 1 & 2. You want that project to have more advertizing than Interplay. Beside that, compared with other Fonline, i had FAR MORE web press coverage than any other Fonline server. That launch was very impressive, for most people that have things to compare with. Although, after the launch there was less advertizing, but also no game changing features that deserved a new coverage on the websites that already spread the word. About advertizing on new websites after launch, the team has shrinked a lot. It also needs new blood.

2. Wasted dozens of hours waiting/searching for enemy (even in time with 150 people online)

You must be the only one then. There many people everywhere in september/october.

3. I needed more than a week of very active gameplay (more like two) to learn about mechanics to be effective. (pretty sure new commers will need more), had to create character planner for it

I never used character planner. I only rerolled two time my main character, that i created on day one. The first time by myself for small tweaks (when the server required us to do it). For the second time i asked my buddies a few tips, but it was 2-3 days before the shutdown. Yet, i managed to lend a lot of kills, including when outnumbered. The ingame tactics replaced hours of character planning.

4. I needed to use AutoHotkey to make make controls less suffering

Indded, but not more than the other servers. Those AutoHotkey aren't bad per se, but there sure must be known by the new players.

5. Had to write recruitment posts on the forum and encourage everyone in-game in join VoiP

I did many operations without mumble/Teamspeak and it worked quite often. Sure, it is better with it, but not gamebreaking. If you don't hear voices, just follow the leader or a character with similar playstyle and watch what he does and do the same thing. I did that for most of the operations led by Den (don't remember the full name) as it was useless to go on their TS. (they only spoke russian). We relie more on it now that we are only a few players, but even there, some people simply refuse to go on mumble and you have to aknowledge those players and give them advices.

6. Have been called a swarmer.

Indeed you are... a member of a team who like to outnumber. The balance is indeed an issue, but spend some time in other serves and you see even more unbalance.

You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players.

Other Fonline servers are what we can compare with.
Fallout based MMO - Fallout fans which are willing to play an MMO based on it.
Free project - Not just free to play, but made by unpaid people who pay money for the server, code/mod on it, and do the advertizement. Limited abilities in human ressources and limited possibilities on legal ways. (Beth could prevent anything anytime if they want it)
No paid advertizing as the team/playerbase simply can't afford it.
Word of mouth is the way.
Langage barrier - Currently only those who understand english can play.
I proposed the services of a french translation team from Fogen, to increase french playerbase and was answered that it was too early for that as many things would change.
Fonline isn't a finished game, but a beta, an early access game, an early access that could potentially last forever.

[paragon]

1. Current session of Fo2 was advertised seriously, probably first time in the history of Fonlines. By developers.
2. I mean there're a lot of free-to-play pvp multiplayer games where you don't need to wait to have a fight. You log in into game, press connect and fight. FO concept is different, and even having players, they can ignore pvp for many reasons, e.g. fear of losing equipment.
3. Nope. I have no good examples in MMO RPG though. From 1st hour in Planet Side 2 you can have kill-death rate > 4:1 only with experience from other shooter-games and some tactics.
4. It's not, despite any excuse about the source. Many new players pointed it out, you can see on "Let's plays" yourself how inefficient their use of game controls.
6. It's more about "fairness" of fights. Some have more, some have less, but lose cost is much more than arena game, so nobody's gonna go against the odds.

and you completely missed the point:
"You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players."
By AutoHotkey I mean this: http://www.autohotkey.com/

[Stem Sunders]

Yes, I'm sure. I played Fonlines for 1 year. When I came to AoP:

1. I was the only one from all people I talk to IRL knowing that it exists
2. Wasted dozens of hours waiting/searching for enemy (even in time with 150 people online)
3. I needed more than a week of very active gameplay (more like two) to learn about mechanics to be effective. (pretty sure new commers will need more), had to create character planner for it
4. I needed to use AutoHotkey to make make controls less suffering
5. Had to write recruitment posts on the forum and encourage everyone in-game in join VoiP
6. Have been called a swarmer.

You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players.

I don't like doubling up posts but, dude?...

1)
Old school fallout is niche as hell in terms of the overall gaming community and fonline smaller still...Its no wonder you were the only person that knew about it, Its not and never is going to be mainstream. Its not about to receive a T.V commercial.

2)
I dunno what you're talking about, at the beginning players were everywhere, the city was crawling with PvP, which you could jump into right away.

3)
Yeah, it may have took you a week to figure out how everything works.
Did it take you any less time to figure out how the other servers worked?
and again, new games means learning from scratch, I don't see how you're holding that against AoP and at least not the others.

4)
Did you have to autohotkey other games in the past? oh and btw auto key is a preference, I dare say some people don't use them.

5)
You didn't have to write anything on the forum, Again its a thing of preference.
I find it hard to believe V-Tec ever had trouble finding players, apart from maybe towards the end. and family never used voice either.

6)
You got called a swarmer cuz you partook in swarming...


I think you put forth a lot of what you prefer and dislike as fact

[naossano]

6. It's more about "fairness" of fights. Some have more, some have less, but lose cost is much more than arena game, so nobody's gonna go against the odds.

Nobody except the family, the lawyers and the BBoys.
I never had a V-TEC character so i can't say you purposly avoid fight when you are outnumbered, but we rarely seen you in lower/equal number and still coming. It was often outnumbering or not coming at all.
On the other end, the three other teams come in any case, outnumbering/outnumbered/equal numbers, they came.
I don't want to harass you again about swarming, but the fact the three other teams will come despite the number mean that it isn't that much an obstacle that prevent players to play.
When the difference is too big, it can predict the outcome of the fight, but it have to be a large difference to prevent the players to play at all.

[Teela]

Well since I'm too lazy to read everything you people wrote there I'm just going to say this:

I found AOP rather noob friendly. I never played fonline before when I started playing this game last autumn. People (and esp. Paragon) have been very very helpful to me as a new player. By donating the occasional gear, by helping me make a playable character, by being endlessly patient and explaining game mechanics and tactics over and over again (and I still haven't learned).

On the other hand PVP in AOP is heavily dependent on team play. Gear and build are, imo, less important than how well you play together. One persons actions can lose the battle. So its understandable that there is a certain hesitation towards taking newbies to a PVP fight. When its 15 vs 15 its not so much of a problem to have a couple of people randomly running around. But in 5vs5 it can be critical.

In VTEC you have to be either very new (like lvl 3) or a total idiot to not be 'allowed' to join in PVP. Although Paragon does make a habit of threatening to 'make people join the Family' if they don't behave

[Teela]

Drama continoues , Cirnwa we need server back to settle some things ingame

I think it shows true dedication when people manage to continue talking shit even without a server lol

[Stem Sunders]

1. Current session of Fo2 was advertised seriously, probably first time in the history of Fonlines. By developers.
Fonline 2 is the only one I never saw advertisements for.

2. I mean there're a lot of free-to-play pvp multiplayer games where you don't need to wait to have a fight. You log in into game, press connect and fight. FO concept is different, and even having players, they can ignore pvp for many reasons, e.g. fear of losing equipment.

Players should have that choice. otherwise they will be playing one of these games that is free to play and pvp with no waiting....And the other servers promote ignoring PvP out of fear of losing equipment much more than here.

3. Nope. I have no good examples in MMO RPG though. From 1st hour in Planet Side 2 you can have kill-death rate > 4:1 only with experience from other shooter-games and some tactics.

Different games entirley, one I never played so I can really comment

4. It's not, despite any excuse about the source. Many new players pointed it out, you can see on "Let's plays" yourself how inefficient their use of game controls.

Of course the fact that the source is so old matters...
A tutorial would help.
Players today are used to everything being laid out for them in a pretty straight line where pressing A and forward will allow you to beat the game, anyone seeking Fallout is looking for a different experience same is for Fonline.

Otherwise they would obviously just play something else.

6. It's more about "fairness" of fights. Some have more, some have less, but lose cost is much more than arena game, so nobody's gonna go against the odds.

I find this more applicable to other servers but w.e

and you completely missed the point:
"You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players."

Other servers have 1000 players worldwide? dailey? weekley? monthley?

You're comparing it to games of a complete different nature with different communities with a playerbase that want complete different experiences. ugh!!!

By AutoHotkey I mean this: http://www.autohotkey.com/

This is a total preference and you cant hold having to do this yourself against a game.

You talk in circles, make contradictions and even less sense.

I have no desire to quarrel about it, I've tried to lay out where the fault in your points are but you come back with even less sensical ones. Its just become time wasting now.

I want the server back, dont you want the server back?

CIRN00000

(Final Edit)

and you completely missed the point:
"You compare AoP to other Fonline servers which has <1000 playerbase worldwide.
I compare AoP to MMO games with >100 000 players."

I thought on this one some more, I see where you're coming from by comparing it to other games of that size, I totally get it. I didn't see it at first I didn't have that sense.
Although I'm guessing the games you're comparing it to were not released in the 90s?
As much as you say that doesn't matter I really think it does.

For the purposes of comparison at least, Fonline is unique just like Fallout.
And I think trying to compare that to games that weren't released almost two* decades ago is not only the wrong way of going about it, but maybe damaging to how people see the game.

Its kinda hard to compare Fallout to anything that preceded it all that time ago let alone twenty years later, I only say this because essentially we're playing a heavily modded version of the original material.
(Yes,yes there was wasteland but still a hard comparison)

[twat]

that blue color is really hurting my eyes BRO

[Stem Sunders]

that blue color is really hurting my eyes BRO

Its red now BRAH, hope its better.

Now thats some carebear shit

[twat]

that is better thank you

[twat]

we play dungeons and dragons with a larger group every week or two. my brother and I are trying to get them to all consider replacing DND with AOP cause BRO

[Komrade]

that blue color is really hurting my eyes BRO

Its red now BRAH, hope its better.

Now thats some carebear shit

I thought stem was changing sides for a moment.

[Stem Sunders]

we play dungeons and dragons with a larger group every week or two. my brother and I are trying to get them to all consider replacing DND with AOP cause BRO

Very applicable

Fallout 1 and 2 are essentially just automated dungeon masters.
Think of the adventures your group could have!

Out of interest which D&D are you talking of? I've been meaning to look into it.