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Author Topic: ZC isn't the only PVP people  (Read 20057 times)

MARXMAN

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ZC isn't the only PVP people
« on: October 15, 2014, 10:40:53 PM »

I know I'm not the only one who has noticed this, but there seems to be a lack of players in the core unless ZC is going on. Even when I see 50-70 players online, the way the core looks it might as well be 30. PVE is becoming a problem IMO, as Vtecs and Lawyers are not a regular sight in the core. It seems to me that everyone is afraid to go out and lose gear, and they just sit doing high rep missions until they can buy gear for ZC. This makes the game incredibly boring. I don't usually see the lawyer/vtec ZC regulars in the core (and I haven't really seen much vs BB ZC), unless they're in LARGE numbers. Something needs to be done to encourage more players to venture into the core. Small squads PVP in the core is the most fun this game has IMO, and it shouldn't die because of fucking carebears.

Thoughts?
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catstevens

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 10:45:59 PM »

i agree 100%. I think having missions in instanced locations is a mistake for this game. The high-rep missions should instead take place within the core i think.
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S.T.A.L.K.E.R

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 10:54:36 PM »

It seems to me that everyone is afraid to go out and lose gear, and they just sit doing high rep missions until they can buy gear for ZC. This makes the game incredibly boring. I don't usually see the lawyer/vtec ZC regulars in the core (and I haven't really seen much vs BB ZC), unless they're in LARGE numbers.
I'm not sure if you're talking about prime server time but late server time (mostly americans and late night europeans) nobody wants to do ZC. We have at least 7 Vtecs on but all they do is assignments and I'm dying for some PvP. I go explore core and find nobody.

i agree 100%. I think having missions in instanced locations is a mistake for this game. The high-rep missions should instead take place within the core i think.
Missions in core will be chaos, people will complain that they won't be able to do them.
also some dev said something about stopping/locking all assignments when a zone control timer goes on but the bad thing I see when a faction doesn't have enough people, the people that want to do assignments will get mad

« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:00:25 PM by S.T.A.L.K.E.R »
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MuchaChota

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 01:28:10 AM »

+1 to assignments in core, of all sorts possible

It'd be nice to have an all chat available/a way to see where are other faction members moving in the  zones/something to mobilize the online players of all factions to bring some PvP when there are like 20-50 online. Maybe some announced spawn of rare items/encounter in any zone. Anything
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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 03:00:25 AM »

I think assigs in the core might be a bit problematic if people shoot your targets dead and steal their stuff before you do. Maybe load assig-targets once you get into the assig zone?

But yes, we need to get people out of assigs and bases and inside the Core. The new caravan-ZC system might help with that because people will want to raid those caravans.
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mAdman

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 03:16:32 AM »

Hmm. Well if everyone active was forced to go into the core it would be some crazy shit at primetime, but that's a good thing right?

As much as I did assignments, maybe the high level versions should be removed in place of more "dungeon" style areas, where even though it is a PvE mission, other factions can enter just as easily.

So all high level "PvE" has the chance for PvP interaction.

The low level assignments are fine for introducing people to the game mechanics while getting them up a few levels. But at high levels, it does seem like too much of a draw away from the city. (the high level assignment giver could instead give details about dungeons and whether or not someone from YOUR faction has agreed to enter (or entered) one recently, to stop teams from the same faction bumping into each other in a dungeon and being stuck there together).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 03:20:25 AM by mAdman »
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paragon

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 03:47:43 AM »

I don't go to the core to small scale for pvp for many reasons.
1. It's not really profitable. If you fight in ZC and lose, but make damage, you'll get some money to stay on balance. Not in free pvp.
2. It's not stable. I don't want to run around for hours searching for a fight.
3. It's even less balanced than 10 v 20 ZC. in ZC you can manage to make number of enemy not that sufficient, while if you fight 2 v 4 it's hard to avoid part of the enemy group to fight another part.
4. It's stupid to fight with specialized build 1v1 on even. Sniper against flamer? Only if flamer camps inside than sniper dead. Otherwise... so there's nothing you can do if you meet an enemy in bad situation.
5. It's hard to find a team for it. Most are playing at the evening and they all want to do something. It's much easier to go to ZC together instead of organizing small groups and sending them to different locations.

But it's up to you to make the situation better. Create an event, give people time and location to fight, come there with friends... and somebody will gladly come to fight you.
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baskila

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2014, 04:34:54 AM »

I don't go to the core to small scale for pvp for many reasons.
1. It's not really profitable. If you fight in ZC and lose, but make damage, you'll get some money to stay on balance. Not in free pvp.
2. It's not stable. I don't want to run around for hours searching for a fight.
3. It's even less balanced than 10 v 20 ZC. in ZC you can manage to make number of enemy not that sufficient, while if you fight 2 v 4 it's hard to avoid part of the enemy group to fight another part.
4. It's stupid to fight with specialized build 1v1 on even. Sniper against flamer? Only if flamer camps inside than sniper dead. Otherwise... so there's nothing you can do if you meet an enemy in bad situation.
5. It's hard to find a team for it. Most are playing at the evening and they all want to do something. It's much easier to go to ZC together instead of organizing small groups and sending them to different locations.

But it's up to you to make the situation better. Create an event, give people time and location to fight, come there with friends... and somebody will gladly come to fight you.
hmm interesting you find it that way. My experiences are quite opposite.
Random pvp is the most fun activity in the game. You never know who you will encounter or how many. It makes for different situations every time. Teaming up with people is no problem at all but maybe it's because of your faction. In Family most players want to go and I can easily say that I can play all day long doing only random pvp with others.
Gear is not any problem either. I get killed but kill as well. Overall I get more stuff than I loose.
Additional thing is that if people don't have equipment we share so maybe not sharing might also be a factor in your faction.

The only problem is lack of people in the core. It was so much fun at the beginning when there was loads of people scavenging and running around. I'm sure that some encouragement for people to go to the core and not carebear in bases would help for sure.
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greenthumb

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2014, 04:54:24 AM »

I am not playing that frequently to experience all situations in core, but if problem is that players prefer to stay safe, within relatively low risk and constant profit, only thing possibly influencing their decision to go to core is potentialy high profit for significantly higher risk. Maybe this motive will make you think about it:

Assignments representation
Lets say a wheat farmer is taking care of his field for average daily profit of 400 currency units. Risk is low and even if weather and season arent hospitable one year, another year it will be better. So average profit over few year aswell as minimum salary every year is guaranteed.

Solo Core Runs representation
Lets say farmer got an opportunity to travel to another country, where industry is more expanding but chance to employ is 50%. Average income for worker there is 1000 currency units.

Now lets compare both, 1st option is  providing low but stable income of 400. While another option is rewarding in average 50% * 1000 = 500. Which option would you choose? For every poor yokel, first option is the only choice. Nobody would exchange 50% chance to loose his living for 25% higher income.


In terms of game, core has to be rewarding much more to motivate all kind of players venture inside.


Problems

1. Most of the ZC fighters will do much better accomplishing 1 SS mission than doing ZC for 1 hour( not taking into account loot from players, just ZC reward, I assumed, over long time, player loose as much gear as he gains)
2. Running dungeon(s) is dumb and dump of your sources. Only valuable stuff there are modules, well maybe 2 or 3 oil cans... But nothing else worth going there, in average its realy money dump.
3. Looting polymer lab is REALY nice, i love it always, but i am not sure if any other zone is as profitable to loot, in general you ll die more and loose more of your time than just running assignments and buying polymers, kevlars...whatever.

Solution for ZC
1a. Pay 50-100 caps Fix Reward for every single character active in zone since begining till the end of timer.
1b. ZC Ammo Reward, Repay 20% of base cost of ammunition for loosing teams and 50% for winner.
1c. Boost ZC Score reward by 20-30%
1d. Reward for supportive characters, reward is given to everyone who use fa/stim/ss/doc/defib on friendly player. Total reward should be capped per each player dependent of his ZC score. E.g. Miniguner deals 1000 damage, medic heals 500 hp in process. Medic earns additional  50% amount of miniguners score. If he would heal Miniguner for 1500 hp,  he would not get more than just 100% of score anyway.

Solution for Dungeon(s)
2a. Add more!
2b. Boost XP reward
2c. Instanced Treasures!!! CAPS, MKIII ARMORS, ROCKET LAUNCHERS...

Solution for loot spawning in core
3a. More characteristic spawns, so one can acutaly learn where to find desired resource. It works quite nice in polymer lab, but other seems to be inapproprate( for me)
3b. More loot

Thats it
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 04:56:35 AM by greenthumb »
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baskila

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2014, 05:17:42 AM »

Why are you focusing on ZC so much? It's not the problem, lack of random players in the core is.
You want to give more rewards for ZC. It would only further promote what is going on right now and that is people logging in just to do ZC and then log out. We don't need more promotion of ZC we need to promote random players to explore the core and to encourage random pvp.
To fix it we have to look at the reason why players carebear in bases. And that is because they only do assignments.
One way to counter it would be to give more xp to critters in the core. that would make of a good alternative to earn xp instead of grinding assignments.
Other idea (to promote random pvp) would be global announcements like: "Vary rare weapon has been spotted in <zone name>". That would encourage people to go. Or "Critter infestation in zone X has been reported." - that would encourage players to go to earn xp. Or "Rare object reportedly seen in zone X".
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Niamak

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2014, 05:30:17 AM »

In my opinion, scavenging core is always the best way to make caps (800-1000 caps/run) but grinding assignment is nice and easy. Only solution is to remove assignments.
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baskila

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2014, 05:48:51 AM »

In my opinion, scavenging core is always the best way to make caps (800-1000 caps/run) but grinding assignment is nice and easy. Only solution is to remove assignments.
No doubt that would force people to go to the core but I din't think it's the best solution. Basically you don't want to strip the game of features. If you designed something and it's working it would be a shame to remove it. But I agree some tweaks would be nice but at the same time creating alternative opportunities to earn xp in the core.
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PorkchopExpress

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2014, 06:33:17 AM »

In my opinion, scavenging core is always the best way to make caps (800-1000 caps/run) but grinding assignment is nice and easy. Only solution is to remove assignments.
No doubt that would force people to go to the core but I din't think it's the best solution. Basically you don't want to strip the game of features. If you designed something and it's working it would be a shame to remove it. But I agree some tweaks would be nice but at the same time creating alternative opportunities to earn xp in the core.

You definetly don't encourage people to go into core since you always fight in a group waiting to ambush those loners....
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baskila

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2014, 06:37:52 AM »

In my opinion, scavenging core is always the best way to make caps (800-1000 caps/run) but grinding assignment is nice and easy. Only solution is to remove assignments.
No doubt that would force people to go to the core but I din't think it's the best solution. Basically you don't want to strip the game of features. If you designed something and it's working it would be a shame to remove it. But I agree some tweaks would be nice but at the same time creating alternative opportunities to earn xp in the core.

You definetly don't encourage people to go into core since you always fight in a group waiting to ambush those loners....
Not always. Sometimes I go alone because I feel like it. Same as sabbarab or komrade or others. Depending on mood.
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Hang-Lip

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 06:57:24 AM »

Only the hardest assignments (S,SS) should involve going to the core to complete them i think.
If this was implemented and worked, i think core might need to be a bit bigger.
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rix

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 06:57:47 AM »

Wana fun and endless pvp in Core?
5 words 4 devs:
high rewarding assignment in Core

now loner can do D assignment for 3-6 k exp (with exp for hitting enemys ofc), give people choice between safe assignment and high risk but high rewarding assignment in core (about x3 exp, money and rep), and pvp go on, cos u motivate people to run in the core

sry 4 bad eng
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 07:00:35 AM by rix »
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Stem Sunders

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2014, 08:04:26 AM »

Family always has a death squad of around 3 - 8 players, they are always hunting the core. All we ever find are loners and the occasional duo.
Sometimes we stumble across a ZC raiding party.

The only reason V-Tecs get the worst treatment is because we know they will be around to provide some fun. Unlike law who we can only find during ZC apart from the odd loner and then theres BB's and I've only seen 1 player from there in the past week.

I'd definitely like to see more players around the core. If I go alone, more often than not I can run from one end of the core to the other without seeing a single player. The only way I can guarantee seeing somone is by going to V-Tec gate.
Or perhaps sit on our own gate till some V-Tec come to us, Which doesn't happen as often as some would have you believe :P
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 08:21:23 AM by Stem Sunders »
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PorkchopExpress

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2014, 08:22:27 AM »

Family always has a death squad of around 3 - 8 players

There's your answer to entire question about loners not scavening core anymore.....
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SnowCrash

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2014, 08:37:20 AM »

I enjoy sneaking around the core, and messing with people, closing and opening doors just to scare them. Follow them and spying their movements. And occasionally I even help some people against PvP or PvE fights, when i get the chance. Of course, i also backstab some of them.

But, is true that its not enougth motivation for going there. Im only go to police station for sec to recharge steal boy, and scavenge stims/bandages to trade them for steal boys.
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Captain Chilly

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Re: ZC isn't the only PVP people
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2014, 08:44:52 AM »

i'm just gonna say this:
a PVP oriented Fonline will always die, people want an online fallout to kick ass with their friends, not to get isnta raped by a guy who spent 2 months leveling his sneak and HtH
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