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[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

Here are some changes I think should happen to snipers that aren't used at all (or at least I haven't seen anyone use them)

Dragunov SVD - Remove Knockout Strike and Slaughter shot and put 2x Hemmorhage,

Dragunov SVD-M - Remove crippling strike and slaughter shot and add 2x Deep wounds,

H&K MSG90 Sniper rifle - Remove accurate and BROF and add 2x slaughter shot, also increase damage to 65-80 (same as M1C)

M16A4 ACOG - Remove accurate and add another hemorrhage , increase damage to 45-60

Ak-74M PSO-1 - Remove Accurate and faster reload, add 2x finisher.

Overall, the dragunovs will become great snipers to cause lots of bleed, MSG90 has great range so should hit as hard as the M1C, PS0-1 will become great for single shotting at mid range, and ACOG will be better than it was before atm its DSKs, M1Cs, DSR/AS50 for long range combat

[Niamak]

I would love to use more ACOG.

From what I understand, devs wanted Dragunovs to have specific role, aimed shot for crit effect. ACOG for bleed.

Good things, shooting range will be out soon so people can test weapons and make spreadsheet.

I don't know if for new season, devs gonna do another sweep for weapon balancing but I wouldn't bother balancing every single weapon right now for small scale #lowplayerbase. Especially on a hunch or personal opinion.

[naossano]

Unless it is the changelog that attract player and increase that playerbase.

[Anza]

Simian warfare is only for SG snipers now so i think SG snipes dont need revamp atm maybe

[ProfessorYanick]

After Djibouti Shooty was added to Dragunovs they have double nature neither of which is good enough, so I think removing Knockout and Crippling for bleed sound sensible enough but slaughter should stay.

MSG90 really needs damage boost considering the type of ammo it use but not both slaughter shots and boost, it should be either slaughter shot or direct damage increase.

Never actually used ACOG as of all scout rifles it is probably one really shitty as it lacks damage it should transfer to bleed as probably was intended.

PSO-1. I don't think it need more finishers. We already have this H&K scout rifle with loads of finishers.  Being fast with 30 ammo and Djibouti Shooty this AK needs Accurate and Fast Reload to not waste AP. I can't really think of buffs for it right now. Maybe AK ammo rework?

I'm probably the only person at V-Tec using named guns (and wasting them to Law, lol) and I feel like they need a bit more love from devs (assault rifles too probably).

[John Porno]

I don't know if for new season, devs gonna do another sweep for weapon balancing but I wouldn't bother balancing every single weapon right now for small scale #lowplayerbase. Especially on a hunch or personal opinion.

This guy right here.

Also, we've been discussing snipers, cirn and me, and there will be some changes in the near future to crits.

[Simms]

Whatever small the playerbase may be, this aspect is really crucial. It's not so hard for a new player to see that 90% of ingame weapons are garbage and barely usable in pvp. Just because a certain list of weapons is overly better than all the others. Of all the luxurous variety of weapons we have here, the viable choices aren't more numerous than on any other FO server.

[Anza]

This is not totally true. Some weapons may be counter to other weapons, some might be good against certain armors, some might be average good on every situations while others very good on few situations. With small scale pvp, let's say you have 6v6, you don't have the luxury to use all weapons, especially when you can use T3.

If we were in big scale pvp, you could have many other weapons usable to cover all possibilities and to be able to counter most of the enemy assets. So a weapon that could be useless in 6v6 might actually be good in 20v20 if it allows you to counter another weapon brought by enemy.

[RazorRamon]

Small snipers and other single shot weapons still have their place.

That place however is not a server that has reached endgame status of everyone having practically unlimited caps to buy T2.5 gear (Lasergat,Pancor,RL etc...)

Im sure well see them again after a wipe or when some kind of cap sink is implemented

[Simms]

This is not totally true. Some weapons may be counter to other weapons, some might be good against certain armors, some might be average good on every situations while others very good on few situations. With small scale pvp, let's say you have 6v6, you don't have the luxury to use all weapons, especially when you can use T3.

This doesn't account to SG sniper rifles: read above. This doesn't account to SG sidearms: you won't take a p226 or deagle over 14mm pistol, they're incomparable in DPS output and effects. This doesn't account to ARs, LMGs and alike: BAR just overDPSes everything else.

[cirn0]

There's really only so much room to work with as we categorize each weapon into subclasses.

Subclass of the Small Guns as we see it are:
Small Pistols : Colt, SigSauer, S&W
Large Pistols : 223, 14mm, Deagle
SMGs : Self explaintory
Shotguns : Self explaintory
Battle Rifles : M1, G3, FAL
Assault Rifles : Self explaintory
DMRs : ACOG, PSO1, M21, SVD
Snipers Rifles : MSG, DKS, M1C
Light Machine Guns : BAR, SAW, LSW

It is our mistake to label all the weapons as the same tier because the formula that determined the item stats were not based on any guideline. So for argument sake, we'll address them as the "Meta" tier of each subclasses. Beyond the specific applications, I don't believe it is necessary to keep multiple weapons of the same subclass at the "Meta" level.

In our next weapon design, we've split them into different tiers and balanced each tier of subclass weapons against others. Prior to that, we wanted to flesh out and carve specific and unique roles, play-styles for these subclasses. In that pursuit we've chosen to ignore the current balance and just bring out 1 weapon of each subclass as a prototype.

We do have odd examples at the Sniper Rifles: M1C being a contender vs the DKS. Which is great to see 2 viable guns in the same subclass. In the future, beyond the baseline weapon we also won't hesitate to add in a "sidegrade" to the corresponding tier.

So for the time being, I'm just asking you to be patient and instead of addressing specific weapons, address a specific subclass. That to us is much more critical as we move ahead. I want each subclass of weapons to be unique to another and most importantly fun, thus it is important we don't homogenize them.

I subscribe to Brother Laz's itemization principles, hear some of his gospel here:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/brother-laz-explains-whats-wrong-with-diablo-iiis-legendaries

As far as how actual balancing goes regarding numbers we do balance around:
- Alpha Strike ( Damage / 100 AP )
- Sustained DPS ( Damage / 15 seconds )
- DPS ( Damage / second )

From observation, the popularity lies in promoting high alpha strike weapons, and this rings true beyond just fonline.

These are the easiest to balance as the numbers are relatively simple. Then what range can this damage potential be applied at? Then we go onto the less meaningful but just as important things such as utility and support potential of the weapons. How much is crippling worth in comparison to flat damage?

The more pressing issues are : Are the weapon perks balanced? Is HTG as good as Crippling strike? We really should classify perk teir's and balance those.

I think its easiest to tweak damage numbers because that easily tangible and understandable, the implications are simple, target dies from bullet saturation. But I would prefer if every weapon doesn't just do the same thing.

[ProfessorYanick]

Oh! That's kinda explaining most things. A short view into actual development strategy and it's very nice to have it, thanks cirn0! In my personal opinion each subclass has it's use now and in each subclass there are similiar but diffirent in details ans interesting weapons . It seems that it is mostly due to the weapon trait/perk system (which is one of the most interesting features I've seen around fonline) and for me every perk as they are now seems usable, but I think to classify and split them into tiers there should be a bit more of them. Speaking about subclasses as whole I feel like they are already unique, require different playstyle and diffirent char builds but outperformed by a number of weapons from other classes which are easily obtainable. And smaill number of players place it's mark too - there are certain people who prefer certain strategies and battles could be very similiar not really letting to use every weapon.

[John Porno]

This doesn't account to SG sniper rifles: read above. This doesn't account to SG sidearms: you won't take a p226 or deagle over 14mm pistol, they're incomparable in DPS output and effects. This doesn't account to ARs, LMGs and alike: BAR just overDPSes everything else.

I dont like your way of saying that 14mm pistol is the single best pistol and BAR is the single best LMG. With street samurai, double .223 pistols have a great burst and an m249 used in the right situation can deal incredible damage while being a very mobile and comfortable to play weapon. Looking at everything black and white makes things too easy. It's ok to say "in most cases, weapon x is best" but to say there is no competition at all is just wrong.

It's like people kept saying SMG's were shit until I ran Kurwatime with dual scorpio for a weekend to prove them wrong and suddenly those weapons kept popping up.

[Smalltime]

scorpio

you mean the single best smg?

[nailbrain]

As of now the only SG sniper that has real impact in battle is M1C despite its ~60 range
next in line is the m1 lack of scope(and this is now plus) ~3 aimed shots per ap , decent range and fallin in the category of DMG per SHOT makes is the best allaround SG dat is viable both on range and close combat

on the 30hex and below sg 14mm trumps them all hard ,scorpio and pancor are used to some variable sucses but most ppl use them just beacuse NOT want to use 14 mm again
223 with samurai ? even if u add 4 hands trait and put one 223 in each hand it still will be joke , 223 does 30 crit dmg to average player ,this pistol is the worst drunken anal emanation i have seen so far

[nailbrain]

this pistol is the worst drunken anal emanation i have seen so far

i must apologise for my words i just saw Bozar the inacurate "state of the art sniper"

[mAdman]

There's really only so much room to work with as we categorize each weapon into subclasses.

Subclass of the Small Guns as we see it are:
Small Pistols : Colt, SigSauer, S&W
Large Pistols : 223, 14mm, Deagle
SMGs : Self explaintory
Shotguns : Self explaintory
Battle Rifles : M1, G3, FAL
Assault Rifles : Self explaintory
DMRs : ACOG, PSO1, M21, SVD
Snipers Rifles : MSG, DKS, M1C
Light Machine Guns : BAR, SAW, LSW

I think its easiest to tweak damage numbers because that easily tangible and understandable, the implications are simple, target dies from bullet saturation. But I would prefer if every weapon doesn't just do the same thing.

So, each subclass will have 2 weapons? or 3?

The meta argument will always be an issue, some will consider particular weapons more effective/some weapons will just do "better" damage (for different builds). The weapon perks/traits are what make the biggest difference (weapon range and AP cost/damage obviously also make a difference just not as much).

For example, with the m1c vs the dks. The range difference and AP cost/damage do impact what the weapons are used for, but not as much as the weapon perks, as if you are using an m1c and not shooting a KO crit spot (groin or head) you are "wasting" two of the weapons perks, this basically makes the m1c a headshot (or crotchshot) specific weapon. The perks on the DKS however allow you to take full advantage of all the perks no matter what location of the body you shoot at, with the exception of torso shots, as if you are going to be torso shooting with a sniper, the rifle that has djibouty would be much more effective at doing so.

Personally, the slaughtershot perk is the "best" sniper related weapon perk (meta perk for snipers) as your crit chance is at it's highest when sniping, as you said flat extra damage is the easiest to "measure" in terms of combat effectiveness, and slaughtershot gives the best potential extra damage to someone using aimed shots. That being said, if you are using aimed shots, you do have to choose a specific body part(s) that you will be targeting, and since no weapon with 5x slaughtershot exists, you will likely use the weapon that has other perk(s) relative to your specific target, or the other perks on the weapon with the most slaughtershot perks (m1c) will determine what you will target.

In short; whatever weapon perks/traits that you give a weapon in comparison to other weapons within the same subclass will decide its combat usage and effectiveness, more so than any other characteristics of the weapon (range, damage, AP cost etc).