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[Ender]

Hello all,

Some player like to play as PK ( I mean killing other player of the same faction ). What can we do ?

Right now Lawyer take the Police Departement. I go there with my gear ( armor tier 2 - DSK sniper and shotgun ). I enter Police and go to the building with the military boxes. I check if their are empty ( their were no ennemy in the zc ). Some lawyer enter the place and kill me - took all my loot - to revive me again after. He give excuses : "Russian loot me all loot everyone".  I know this is always the same lawyer and he already kill other lawyer (and already try to attack me when I was scavenging outside any zc ) and I heard complaining about him.

What can we do ? Will we let a shity player destroy the game experience of numberous players ?
I do not want to start shooting others Lawyers ; this will totally break the game. We are supposed to team up against other faction not to kill ourself !

So I ask. Is the game simply broken or is there anything to do ? Anyone ? Any idea ?

Edit :
Reputation system does not work on this : We all have so much reputation that it is not a big deal to loose 10K rep.
With the new system that block bluesuit on ZC I do not see any good reason to continue killing other faction's member so why is the punition not a lot more stronger ? I does not seems logical that someone killing a lawyer can go back to the hq, enter the hearth & base (where only trusted member can go ) and nobody in the base react. Killing faction member should be equals to : no more access to hearth & base and jail time.

Edit2:
Quote from game'rules : 7. Sanctions
Usually, people caught misbehaving in-game will be sent to Sugarman's prison. There is no way out of there, Sugarman never releases prisoners and we do not do it often either. If we catch a platoon obviously cheating, we'll send all its members to jail too. To summarize: please, behave. I think killing member of own faction is "misbehaving in-game" and then player should go to jail and lost all possessions ( you know.. Faction will not keep a room for a prisonner )

[Myakot]

The best thought I came up with was Forgive/Mark button. Basically after a player dies from a faction-mate he has a choice to let it pass (any reason) or to mark a person. That's where the imagination takes place. Either by receiving 10 marks per day/week/month player's rep value just sets at 100 (even shooting a teammate will expel you), or you are becoming an "exiled faction member" whom no one likes (may be for a period of time). By killing that player, you would gain rep. with every faction, as well as may be bounty.
Those are suggestions that need lots of reworking. Hope that you can scavenge my thoughts and make something useful of it!

[Ender]

Hello.

We speak with some other players about this issue and we think about a similar mechanism :

When a member of your faction kill you, you have to report it as an accident or an crime in a very simple way : dialog box on respawn that let you choose. ( In a background point of view this is good because you certainly use some kind of cloning bay to get life back so people have a valid reason to ask you what happens ).

As there is no valid reason to kill someone ( bluesuit can no longuer come in zc ) the punition should be heavy and harsh. If I have a lot of reputation in the faction my betrayal will be fare more important for the faction so I should have a bigger punition. A criminal should not have any access to the HQ and have a reputation malus ( I had 50K rep ? I have -25K now ).

I also think that the squad member / platoon member of the criminal should be punished too (not in the same way) as they clearly play with this player and so encourage him this way ( We are fucking lawyer here ! ).

I like your idea ; these criminal without faction are not white but other color and faction's judge give reward when killing them. And it's a good way to bring fun from this issue.

[Saeko]

I also think that the squad member / platoon member of the criminal should be punished too (not in the same way) as they clearly play with this player and so encourage him this way ( We are fucking lawyer here ! ).

I can understand that you're salty after becoming a victim of what you believe to be an unjust killing, but you just spent the entire salt shaker right there. I mean why stop with the platoon or the squad - punish the entire faction! Ender gets killed? Put all the Lawyers on negative rep, that will surely teach those pesky PKs!

Besides the problem isn't just with the killings, the problem is there's no way to stop a person that you really don't want to have around from following your squad aside from popping them with a few well-placed rounds. What we have right now is a compromise, the dude that shot you received a reputation penalty and probably lost more than he looted, there really is no reason to start any drama as this kind of stuff won't happen frequently due to overall game design.

[PorkchopExpress]

I also think that the squad member / platoon member of the criminal should be punished too (not in the same way) as they clearly play with this player and so encourage him this way ( We are fucking lawyer here ! ).

I can understand that you're salty after becoming a victim of what you believe to be an unjust killing, but you just spent the entire salt shaker right there. I mean why stop with the platoon or the squad - punish the entire faction! Ender gets killed? Put all the Lawyers on negative rep, that will surely teach those pesky PKs!

Besides the problem isn't just with the killings, the problem is there's no way to stop a person that you really don't want to have around from following your squad aside from popping them with a few well-placed rounds. What we have right now is a compromise, the dude that shot you received a reputation penalty and probably lost more than he looted, there really is no reason to start any drama as this kind of stuff won't happen frequently due to overall game design.

So basically it means if you got valuable stuff don't go solo ,not even helping your faction because you know ,they can shoot you and kill you for the good stuff you wear.You can always farm rep with assigments but good stuff you don't acquire that often.....

[Ender]

I can understand that you're salty after becoming a victim of what you believe to be an unjust killing, but you just spent the entire salt shaker right there. I mean why stop with the platoon or the squad - punish the entire faction! Ender gets killed? Put all the Lawyers on negative rep, that will surely teach those pesky PKs!

This is not what I meaned.

First of all I try not to do this a personal case ( for example I did not mention any name / log / screenshots ) and try to have a larger thinking about this issue in the current game mechanics as other players suffers from this. If you do not think that when reading my previous post it's due to my lack of english knowledge and really not intentional.

In my opinion this game is not a free for all. I think there is other fonline server for this. The funniest part of the game come from it's background : One city - Four factions. The Objective is to make our faction win not our private team / person.
PK will kill this game as it will not allows player of same faction to trust each others enough to engage common actions.

For example when someone has been PK trying to help for ZC he will not came back to help when it's really needed.. He will go for assignement or scavenging and may took others players with him... We will not be able to regroup enough forces against other factions and the game will become boring.  When a new player come in the game and is killed by it's faction he leave and never came back. That's what I'm worried about.

The current situation is not ideal (for both opinion) and some improvement can be done and are already done ; bluesuit can no longer enter zc for looting, ... So there is less ( and soon no more ) reason to kill someone from your faction without facing the consequences ( I mean the faction give you services to take control of the city not to kill other faction's member ). It's not because you do not like someone, or you do not want anyone to be there at that time that you have the right to kill them.

About the squad, that was just an idea to discourage people playing with PK. Do not forget that squad member plays together, share gears if not base so they take advantage of this situation as well. And I think if you shoot back to defend you again the PK all his squad will shoot you to defend him ( this is just a supposition ).

I really think this kind of issue can ruin the game on a long-run. As I do not want this to happen - I want more and more people playing this game with all of us - I create this topic to find a solution in gameplay mechanics. Do not see here a personal revenge please.

Some precision :
- This is just my personal opinion
- When I say "you" it's everyone reading this not specifically Saeko ( don't know how to write "general" things in english )

What do you think of Myakot proposal for example ? What are failure ? How can we improve to remove them ?
If you feel someone has to be killed in some situation what are these ?

You know the solution is to avoid any situation where "there is a reasonable reason to kill it" like that we can put game mechanics to avoid them ( as the no more bluesuit in zc ). If we remove these situation it's possible to have system where PK have consequences.

I know it's about to find the right balances but I feel currently PK is totally free and has no consequences.

[Myakot]

The problem is to think of a system which will separate a straight-out TK for fun\loot\reasons and an accidental shooting. (You literally can register a character of the opposite faction and use him as a meat-shield for your team. Like run in the grenade spam or stuff.
Everything is exploitable, fixing it will consume all of your time and will require lots of thought process.
I think that you will have create a "punishment" system, which will cut off the demand for using exploits.
The problem is in the players, not in your coding\brainstorming.

[Spore Plants]

If I wanted to, I could kill another faction member and immediately regain the rep I lost by spamming artifacts for 1k rep each. For a rich faction like Lawyers, it's members can kill other members with no repercussions.

[faopcurious]

I also think that the squad member / platoon member of the criminal should be punished too (not in the same way) as they clearly play with this player and so encourage him this way ( We are fucking lawyer here ! ).

I can understand that you're salty after becoming a victim of what you believe to be an unjust killing, but you just spent the entire salt shaker right there. I mean why stop with the platoon or the squad - punish the entire faction! Ender gets killed? Put all the Lawyers on negative rep, that will surely teach those pesky PKs!

Besides the problem isn't just with the killings, the problem is there's no way to stop a person that you really don't want to have around from following your squad aside from popping them with a few well-placed rounds. What we have right now is a compromise, the dude that shot you received a reputation penalty and probably lost more than he looted, there really is no reason to start any drama as this kind of stuff won't happen frequently due to overall game design.

This is ridiculous, and flawed logic, there are MANY pks ive witnissed in lawyers, I don't know how it is in other faction but I can think of about 6 or so team killers on multiple occasions.
So, ''this stuff won't happen frequently'' is absolute nonsense.

[Saeko]

I can guarantee you that TKing is a small part of a given dude's activity because, well, if it wasn't, he'd get lolpwned by the reputation system and expelled from the faction. That's what I meant when I said this kind of behavior can't be frequent.

In all honesty, I agree with you all, TKing random people is bad and detrimental to the game. I'm not going to defend that in most circumstances. But it's not like people do this for no reason. The possibility of being spied on by alts from the other faction is a real threat - and when you have 2 squads of 10+ people each and some random dude that you see for the first time, it's easy to get trigger-happy.

I'm not sure whether stuff like this can even be solved using in-game mechanics, I just think that Lawyers as a larger, general group have a number of serious issues and should figure out a way to solve them. I'd say that teamkilling isn't even the real problem here, getting any kind of cooperation between squads in this faction is giving me a headache every time I log in - if we figured this out, we would have way less friendly fire incidents.

@Spore_Plants
Try actually doing that for a week straight without hiring someone to do all the farming to sustain the rep costs. Once you're done, figure out how much stuff/caps/time/value you just wasted and cry. Shooting your own dudes isn't a viable tactic in this game - and if there's some way around that, the devs should probably fine-tune the penalties a bit.

[Prosector]

The dialog box if it was accidental or intentional is great idea. Mark as TK and admin could revise the case (get the logs before the incident, how much the teammate shot you; who started the fire etc). And if its PK: Get to the jail for a time, + SET reputation to 10000 (yes the starting rep). If he does it again kick him out of faction. (0 rep)

[Niamak]

We gonna need a tribunal system like ArcheAge soon 

[paragon]

I'm against the TK, but you can't deny that some situation it could be necessary. E.g.: saving stuff of a friend from looting by someone. Looter could be equipped, so ZC level/EQ limit can't help with it. Full restriction of TK is a wrong way.

[mojuk]

I'm against the TK, but you can't deny that some situation it could be necessary. E.g.: saving stuff of a friend from looting by someone. Looter could be equipped, so ZC level/EQ limit can't help with it. Full restriction of TK is a wrong way.

I agree. Instead of constantly tweaking reputation system to punish team killing there should be something done with reasons why this TK madness started and will continue - looters, scouts, trolls.

[Butthead]

teamkilling is good i can kill guy from my factiom who is stupid or something

[hell]

Reputation = PK points

[Kink]

For infos :
http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=1550.msg10763#new

[mojuk]

For infos :
http://fonline-aop.net/forum/index.php?topic=1550.msg10763#new

Guys, we are at this point because some players thinking they can do whatever they want and ruin other players experience : killing others people from their faction for total random purpose like "not enough good stuff for ZC", "i hate blue suits", "this guy is a spy from V-tech", etc.

What about other side? What if I tell you that they ruin everyone else experience? Just by trolling or behaving like idiots.
- not enough good stuff for ZC and feeding enemy team with free points during ZC
- looting our guys, who we can still defibrillate, making them unable to fight
- limiting their contribution to actions to hiding, looting and running away
Those are all things that can ruin pvp/game experience and also good reasons to kill somebody asap.
Nobody likes to be team killed, sure, but sometimes there is good reason for this. And maybe instead on crying they should start thinking why...

[hell]

+300

[baskila]

+300

+300 that all team killers should be permanently banned, yes.