FOnline: Ashes of Phoenix

Game improvements => The Lobby => Topic started by: Ranforius on February 03, 2017, 04:28:54 PM

Title: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 03, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
like in topic - all big gun snipers needs a dmg buff because as50 and dsr make less dmg than L96A1 but need to be deployed soo they are really useless right now :/
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: cirn0 on February 03, 2017, 10:19:45 PM
Different scale of combat brings spotlight to different weapons.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Count Matthew on February 04, 2017, 12:02:54 AM
DSR is pretty ok, As50 is lovely weapon.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: S1mancoder on February 04, 2017, 04:50:13 AM
Well AS50 despite having lower range and requirement to be deployed deals significantly more damage than L95, especially if shot fails to score critical. Other strong side of AS50 is that it can be used for unaimed shooting and score good damage in that role, morever, it is ususally a primary use of the weapon. Just make sure you have enough BRoF bonuses from charisma/armor/perks or traits to have AP cost of 33 for unaimed, that will allow you to do 3 shots in a row, that will show the gun's potential.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 06:21:37 AM
Well, I know big snipers are good but still my pal loose against L96, but maybe because of his build. Anyway thx for your advice
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: S1mancoder on February 04, 2017, 06:57:12 AM
BG snipers indeed tend to lose to SG snipers due to the fact that crits undeploy them. BG snipers is more about dealing damage to non-sniper targets, so SG snipers are somewhat a natural counter to AS50.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Hawk on February 04, 2017, 09:17:17 AM
IMO it's impossible that .50 BMG deals less damage to targets than 7.62x51, also impossible that big caliber rifle got less range than smaller caliber... In first session things were more balanced, Minigun was like Minigun, big caliber was like big caliber, Desert Eagle was like it has to be... Only assault rifles needed some tweaking, that's all. I don't see the point why devs decided to completely change all the system, though nobody liked the changes...
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 10:12:32 AM
Well I test as50 against sg sniper once more and even gives my pal bring me down to 100 hp then I still was able to kill him with dragunow :/ that really was sad

So in my opinion as50 is much more weaker compare to other tier 9 wep
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 10:30:26 AM
BG snipers indeed tend to lose to SG snipers due to the fact that crits undeploy them. BG snipers is more about dealing damage to non-sniper targets, so SG snipers are somewhat a natural counter to AS50.

Well they are shit even against pks or m240 or even aek and pancor...my question is : what's the point of using big snipers if small ones counter them ? What's the point of using big snipers if pancors and aeks still can easly kill them ? Pls guys look for it because guy with metal mk3 ( well manny ppl use it ) can get to you simply rushing and then hit you with single shot from pancor for 120 ? How .50 caliber can make less dmg I know it is a game but big guns snipers won't be used at all if you won't balance it
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Letys on February 04, 2017, 01:28:58 PM
like in topic - all big gun snipers needs a dmg buff because as50 and dsr make less dmg than L96A1 but need to be deployed soo they are really useless right now :/

Yeah make more eff range and thats will be enough don't fuck up this like particle trying do something special plx

YES PARTICLE IS FUCKED UP AND DONT FUCKING TELL ME ITS SILL OP CUZ IS FUCKIN SHIT ,,|,,
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 01:36:42 PM
like in topic - all big gun snipers needs a dmg buff because as50 and dsr make less dmg than L96A1 but need to be deployed soo they are really useless right now :/

Yeah make more eff range and thats will be enough don't fuck up this like particle trying do something special plx

YES PARTICLE IS FUCKED UP AND DONT FUCKING TELL ME ITS SILL OP CUZ IS FUCKIN SHIT ,,|,,

honestly particle have great dmg but it is too slow to fight for now 'cause most of fight is in buildings or in small areas soo you have something like 30% of chance that your traget won't hide before you shoot him :D
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: clochard on February 04, 2017, 02:12:22 PM
we need missile launchers with targeting system and 2000+ range that deal 600 damage in a 50 hexe area.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 02:29:23 PM
we need missile launchers with targeting system and 2000+ range that deal 600 damage in a 50 hexe area.

Don't be childrish....I'm not talking about DSR=200dmg like it was in season 1 but it should be a LITTLE buffed so it can be some alternative for snipers...looks for AEK it is closer to your "missile launchers" description xD
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: FuckYou on February 04, 2017, 02:47:45 PM
we need missile launchers with targeting system and 2000+ range that deal 600 damage in a 50 hexe area.

Don't be childrish....I'm not talking about DSR=200dmg like it was in season 1 but it should be a LITTLE buffed so it can be some alternative for snipers...looks for AEK it is closer to your "missile launchers" description xD
actually aek is ranged ripper from season 1 without bleed mods
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: S1mancoder on February 04, 2017, 02:52:45 PM
Well they are shit even against pks or m240 or even aek and pancor...my question is : what's the point of using big snipers if small ones counter them ? What's the point of using big snipers if pancors and aeks still can easly kill them ? Pls guys look for it because guy with metal mk3 ( well manny ppl use it ) can get to you simply rushing and then hit you with single shot from pancor for 120 ? How .50 caliber can make less dmg I know it is a game but big guns snipers won't be used at all if you won't balance it

Ok I see what you need to know. Weapons in this game are made so, that the longer the range they have the less overall DPS, it is a general rule of thumb (not without exceptions). So BG snipers have quite good range, that mean that in terms of DPS they're generally worse than some closer range weapons.

SG/BG sniper rifles, particle, siege weapons like sonic/plasma cannons, rocket launcher and so on are only really useful when fights are at least 10 vs 10 in size, and it is by their design. If you want to go 1 v 1 or small scale pvp with teams like 5v5 then you should not pick those weapons.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Teela on February 04, 2017, 03:37:59 PM
Well they are shit even against pks or m240 or even aek and pancor...my question is : what's the point of using big snipers if small ones counter them ? What's the point of using big snipers if pancors and aeks still can easly kill them ? Pls guys look for it because guy with metal mk3 ( well manny ppl use it ) can get to you simply rushing and then hit you with single shot from pancor for 120 ? How .50 caliber can make less dmg I know it is a game but big guns snipers won't be used at all if you won't balance it

Ok I see what you need to know. Weapons in this game are made so, that the longer the range they have the less overall DPS, it is a general rule of thumb (not without exceptions). So BG snipers have quite good range, that mean that in terms of DPS they're generally worse than some closer range weapons.

SG/BG sniper rifles, particle, siege weapons like sonic/plasma cannons, rocket launcher and so on are only really useful when fights are at least 10 vs 10 in size, and it is by their design. If you want to go 1 v 1 or small scale pvp with teams like 5v5 then you should not pick those weapons.

On a more individual level: BG snipers need a very specific build (an as50 actually needs a different build than DSR) to be effective. Both DSR and AS50 were heavily nerfed time and time again because they tend to dominate battles (esp in groups). This means that the guns themselves only work when you devote your character to only use that one single weapon. When building an close range SG character or a SG sniper even you have a lot more liberty in choosing what you want your character to look like.

I can't really play atm cos bad internets and I might be a bit out of touch but I haven't seen any major changes here so I'm quite confident you'll still kick ass using a dedicated as50 build. I can't log in atm and char planner is offline otherwise I'd share you a build. (I know s1man knows the secret)

Anyways: try a dedicated build (having a 2nd bg/sg sniper with you is rather convenient) in a 5vs5 or more battle and you'll cause a huge amount of carnage even if it seems that as50 is weak.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 03:51:05 PM
well all I wanted to see in battlefield more wepons than just reapers, aeks, and pancors...and I know that particle and big snipers was op in big battlefields but now your online is max 30 ppl and fight is like 5vs5vs3 or something like that....just want to see more wepons here, 'cause gatlings, sonic and plasma cannons still are usefull but this ones ( now I mean big snipers ) aren't but thx for every information - I will try out to find that build
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: FuckYou on February 04, 2017, 04:54:04 PM
well all I wanted to see in battlefield more wepons than just reapers, aeks, and pancors...and I know that particle and big snipers was op in big battlefields but now your online is max 30 ppl and fight is like 5vs5vs3 or something like that....just want to see more wepons here, 'cause gatlings, sonic and plasma cannons still are usefull but this ones ( now I mean big snipers ) aren't but thx for every information - I will try out to find that build
that is why everyone (except devs and some cunts) want to rollback to season 1, we got better balance and more diversity
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Count Matthew on February 04, 2017, 06:25:05 PM
Man whole array of different weapons are used.

I saw Aek, Laser Rifle Ext, Minigun, SCAR and many others for less than 1 hour of play.

AEK seems to be the go to shit weapon that is most popular.

Today what suprised me today was the plasma pistol.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Ranforius on February 04, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Man whole array of different weapons are used.

I saw Aek, Laser Rifle Ext, Minigun, SCAR and many others for less than 1 hour of play.

AEK seems to be the go to shit weapon that is most popular.

Today what suprised me today was the plasma pistol.

You are right I just wanted to show that we closed ourselves in narrow section of weapons when we have so manny other, good weps that's all I mean there. anyway you were right about that as50 build ( I got max shoot for 35 ap, can't get lower without leadership ) and it brings doom O.o thank you for you help here
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: John Porno on February 05, 2017, 06:22:44 AM
Man whole array of different weapons are used.

I saw Aek, Laser Rifle Ext, Minigun, SCAR and many others for less than 1 hour of play.

AEK seems to be the go to shit weapon that is most popular.

Today what suprised me today was the plasma pistol.

You are right I just wanted to show that we closed ourselves in narrow section of weapons when we have so manny other, good weps that's all I mean there. anyway you were right about that as50 build ( I got max shoot for 35 ap, can't get lower without leadership ) and it brings doom O.o thank you for you help here
The general weapon choice is influenced by these things, among others:
- Map
- Total playercount in fight
- Disparity of playercount between teams
- Knowledge about enemy weapon- and buildchoice
- Skill of your teammates and your enemies
- Personal preference
- The fact that personal preference changes over time

Also, here are some Hyptheses which will surely entice some shitposting further down:

No player or dev is omniscient nor completely rational.
-> Everyone's decision is to some degree subjective.
--> Opinions will change over time.
---> The meta is essentially a network of subjective opinions based on, but not strictly governed by hard gameplay mechanics
----> The meta is constantly changing even without the game changing.

Bonus fact: Since everyone has limited mental capacity and only has a limited amount of data available, with both of those parameters being different for every single player, errors will be made which further contribute to the changing of the meta. Even a hypthetical perfect hard balance would result in subjective meta.

My own personal conclusion out of these thoughts is that a perfect balance is not even something to aim for. Instead, I would say as a dev that it's much better to concentrate on "enabling" players to react to the changing meta in more than one way. Even if that case was hypothetically the case, it would still merely "enable" players to do so but not "make" them do so.

In other words, if you think the meta is fucked, try to find ways to change it yourself. I am 100% confident that we have supplied ample game mechanics allowing everyone to do so. However, hard factors like playernumber will naturally affect this process in ways that we as devs cannot control, unless we tried to scale mechanics and weapon stats with playercount, which we obviously dont cause it's a stupid idea.

gitgud
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: cirn0 on February 05, 2017, 02:43:09 PM
scale mechanics and weapon stats with playercount

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: RazorRamon on February 05, 2017, 06:14:37 PM
scale mechanics and weapon stats with playercount, which we obviously dont cause it's a stupid idea.




(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)
FUCK YOU
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/7a/Wknife.gif)
wait for it
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: John Porno on February 06, 2017, 01:11:48 PM
why is the least important point getting all the attention oh wait
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: IIKM-enotsneknarF on February 09, 2017, 02:09:47 PM
that is why everyone (except devs and some cunts) want to rollback to season 1, we got better balance and more diversity

(https://media.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy-facebook_s.jpg)

well all I wanted to see in battlefield more wepons than just reapers, aeks, and pancors...and I know that particle and big snipers was op in big battlefields but now your online is max 30 ppl and fight is like 5vs5vs3 or something like that....just want to see more wepons here, 'cause gatlings, sonic and plasma cannons still are usefull but this ones ( now I mean big snipers ) aren't but thx for every information - I will try out to find that build

You're forgetting Flamer, plasma rifle, FN scar, and gatling. Which most weapons are just spam, spam spam spam and enemy dies. You're not spamming? You're dead. Why does anyone want to play at its current state where the only good weapons are just spam weapons, like wtf. As this piggy cunt said AEK go to weapon. Why? Because its the most easiest and doesn't require much effort. enable hold click to shoot and bam, you're gonna win most fights.

Low AP cost, high weapon capacity, spam or die. Most of the times I've died was from plasma rifle or AEK. Now there's so many fucken weapons when I came to play for a bit, I had no idea what was good or what was bad, I took milkor and was just completely obsolete and inferior to all these other guns. I saw dragunov or was L96 better, but dragunov was tier 9 wtf  :o

Session 1 was way better cause you had almost anything, even in small scale fights but before small scale fights were like 11 vs 10 vs random lolyers, but sometimes more people will come resulting into more bigger fights. You had DSRs/AS50s, small gun snipers, melee, fucken miniguns, AUGs, pistol spammers (deagle, 14mm with simian warfare = insta KO :D), sneaks which needed tweaking but were decent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ATQAyyEI0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVAdHjdDR6E

The good times  :'(
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Count Matthew on February 09, 2017, 02:51:13 PM
that is why everyone (except devs and some cunts) want to rollback to season 1, we got better balance and more diversity

(https://media.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy-facebook_s.jpg)

well all I wanted to see in battlefield more wepons than just reapers, aeks, and pancors...and I know that particle and big snipers was op in big battlefields but now your online is max 30 ppl and fight is like 5vs5vs3 or something like that....just want to see more wepons here, 'cause gatlings, sonic and plasma cannons still are usefull but this ones ( now I mean big snipers ) aren't but thx for every information - I will try out to find that build

You're forgetting Flamer, plasma rifle, FN scar, and gatling. Which most weapons are just spam, spam spam spam and enemy dies. You're not spamming? You're dead. Why does anyone want to play at its current state where the only good weapons are just spam weapons, like wtf. As this piggy cunt said AEK go to weapon. Why? Because its the most easiest and doesn't require much effort. enable hold click to shoot and bam, you're gonna win most fights.

Low AP cost, high weapon capacity, spam or die. Most of the times I've died was from plasma rifle or AEK. Now there's so many fucken weapons when I came to play for a bit, I had no idea what was good or what was bad, I took milkor and was just completely obsolete and inferior to all these other guns. I saw dragunov or was L96 better, but dragunov was tier 9 wtf  :o

Session 1 was way better cause you had almost anything, even in small scale fights but before small scale fights were like 11 vs 10 vs random lolyers, but sometimes more people will come resulting into more bigger fights. You had DSRs/AS50s, small gun snipers, melee, fucken miniguns, AUGs, pistol spammers (deagle, 14mm with simian warfare = insta KO :D), sneaks which needed tweaking but were decent.



The good times  :'(

^ Clueless ^
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Kurwier on February 11, 2017, 12:19:08 PM
well i have to agree with sralker that spam weapons are favoured in current version of aop, this thunder pistol doesnt come close to 14mm meta from first season.

and there are many more examples probably... aek is the got to go weapon because it deals the most damage compared to other assault rifles, the problem there is in my opinion that other assault rifles dont offer any other perks traits which aek doesnt has... since some dev had the idea to give all ARs this accurate bursts trait lol there is no significant difference between all of them except the damage output.

milkor is completely shit also compared to season 1 , it only deals good damage against armors with low exploding resistance , if some player got this strangelove perk its even more lol , against combat armors total useless already ... in season 1 it feelt alot better. now its only good against noob people without strangelove perk or gunturret to undeploy them but other than that i dont like it ... nadepistol probably better.

the only changes regarding weapon category i really like is shotguns. but rest seems still like wip and with even more weapons we end up with less weapons to choose from ... funny
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: John Porno on February 12, 2017, 04:25:26 AM
Theres a reason players use aek and devs use sg552
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: Kurwier on February 12, 2017, 04:51:05 AM
Theres a reason players use aek and devs use sg552

devs play their own game ?

This No 1vs1 Noob...
SG?
Have You EVER encountered a SWARM of AEKs ???
Tuc Tuc Tuc...
RatTatTattat...
Ratuctuctuctat...
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sga0nuhohxwhcnf/avatar_102_1478394988.png)
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: clochard on February 12, 2017, 05:59:31 AM
Theres a reason players use aek and devs use sg552

so they can ragequit the game?
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: clochard on February 12, 2017, 06:23:01 AM


Which most weapons are just spam, spam spam spam and enemy dies.

Low AP cost, high weapon capacity, spam or die.









You had DSRs/AS50s, small gun snipers, melee, fucken miniguns, AUGs, pistol spammers.





spamming was better before.
Title: Re: Big Gun Snipers needs buff
Post by: RazorRamon on February 12, 2017, 02:39:23 PM
Theres a reason players use aek and devs use sg552

I guess it's the same reason why devs stimpak tables instead of players