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Author Topic: PvP tips  (Read 11081 times)

mafiapl

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PvP tips
« on: September 08, 2015, 04:59:37 AM »

Cover: In AoP you got 2 types of cover, full cover and partial cover. The full one obscures the vision. The partial one makes you less likely to get hit by enemy. Don't try to fight enemy on open space, unless your team clearly outguns the enemy at a long distance. Always stay somewhere near full cover. In addition to that, you can also create your own cover from snipers by throwing smoke grenade between the point you want to cover and a sniper. The smoke can be used for defense against sniper, for offense against sniper lane and for defensive offense if you want to deploy your machine gun/minigun and shot blindly at enemy without being targeted by snipers.

Information: It is important to have info about the enemy before you engage them. If you can, poke behind cover to check for enemy positions. There is specific tactic to aid your team, quickly press space to enter RTS mode, then use right mouse clicks to quickly ping enemy locations. This should be performed under 1 or 2 seconds, in the meantime your character should have been ordered to move behind the cover.

Weapon ranges: You need to be aware at least of the basic weapon ranges, you don't need to know specific number, but more less how far it reaches. For instance, DSR outranges m1c, however simply thinking like that will get you killed. You need to deploy DSR, this wastes action point, you dont need to deploy m1c. M1c can easily take down DSR by closing the distance by moving between covers.

Support your allies: This isn't just about first aid or to defibrilate them, they are minor things in teamplay, but even minor things can save the day, although rarely, that's why they are minor. The most important way to support your teammates is to shot when they shot, expose yourself when they are exposed. If the enemy splits his damage between 2 players instead of 1, then your chances of survival will be higher. Unless enemy uses machine gun, but that's what for is the advice "Information" for.

Know your weapon: You need to be familiar with the upsides and downsides of your weapon. This isn't as simple as you may think. An example ? Steyr is a weapon for 42 hex range combat, a middle distance, the AK-74 is better most of the times, but it has 34 distance range, that's close distance. Pancor is 22 hex distance weapon but it easily outdamages AK-74. If i am to pick a weapon that gives both damage and range, it would by Steyr. So what's the lesson ? It takes around 4 seconds to kill with Pancor, it takes around 8 seconds to kill with Desert Eagle .50, yet Deagle outddamages Pancor in most cases. How is this even a math ? There is 2v2 fight, exchange of fire through windows, one side has a sniper and machine gun and deals average damage, the other one has 2 gattlings, each dealing very high damage. Yet the gattlings lose, how come ? Figuring out answers to those questions requires game experience with different weapons, so go ahead and seek most deadly combinations, but remember that "deadly" doesn't apply to all situations.

Voice chat: Do not underestimate this. It's much faster to say few words than to write them. Joining the voice chat should be done as preparations for PvP, not during PvP and not after the fight to play and coordinate even better by using voice chat next time. Even listening to others without speaking yourself gives you an edge.

Determination: You lose the fight and you and your team will take shit gear and go for funzies next fight and maybe you will win, you have nothing to lose. Sure that's fun in it's own way, but no way to win the fight. You need take it more seriously, to make tactical analysis of what you did wrong, of the enemy arsenal, of the possible places where it can be rendered less effective, then come back better prepared. If that doesn't work, do it again. This way, you will become better players much faster than if you did things for funzies.

Tactical positioning: This task usually falls upon the leader/collective to pick a spot where you will fight. Do not pick places where you will be overwhelmed from multiples sides easily. Pick places with cover, in big fights, places where reinforcements can arrive easily.

Hold your squad dear: The PvP is not over because your team loses once, you don't die in reality from that. However you can lose your teammates if you keep blaming everyone constantly, or being a bully to others. This is a social skill, something that allows you to win fights by outnumbering your enemy and is visible only in long terms, not during single fight. Be a person worthy of the respect, not a person hated by everyone. Everyone gets angry from time to time and says things he regrets, it's important to say sorry for those bad things you've said.

Know when to retreat: You need to be aware of when to pull back from fight and reorganize the team. This also includes the times when the fight goes on for too long and your team is running out of supplies. Or when you've lost too many people and enemy didn't. Do NOT run in panic, else enemy will hunt you down and you will miss the chance when enemy leaves himself open for swift and effective counter attack if they pursue you and break formations. It's better to save what's left of you than to lose everything for no reason.

Crowd control: It is vital for your team to have some kind of crowd control weaponry, like fire grenades, like miniguns, machine guns, door glue, anything that can stop the advance or rush of the concentrated enemy forces.

Know the mods: There are mods like noroof, noreload, attack-move, open-enter doors. They were created for a reason, it was to speed up things you do in pvp. You should master them and use them. They have downsides too, but provide you with advantage over others who do not use them for stubborn reasons. It's like not using super stimpacks or drugs simply because you don't like it, even if it could have saved you.

Be on guard: Just because you don't see the enemy doesn't mean there is no sneaker around you, waiting for the chance to take you down. The only safe place is your own room/base and world map. Not even HQ courtyards are safe from fire grenades.

Secondary weapon: The secondary weapon of choice is and never should be your primary damage dealing weapon. This is something you should take for situations like those: A 2v2 fight is about to take place, me with pancor and my buddy with sniper are fighting against 2 snipers. What would be the problem then ? The problem would be me with pancor and the inability to support my ally and attack the enemy that is 60 hexes away. This is where high level players have advantage over low level players (low level = above 24 but below 39), because high level players can have more than one weapon skill at 250% or 225%, thus allowing them to pick secondary weapon from bigger arsenal. Remember, the secondary weapon needs to complement your primary weapon. Like this (Primary/Secondary) Shotgun(green)/Steyr, Shotgun(white)/ACOG, Shotgun(white)Laser rifle, Sniper rifle/H&K shotgun(White), Sniper rifle/Grenade Pistol, Melee/Steyr, Melee/Grenade Pistol, DSR/M249, Gattling/Super sledge, Minigun/Rad rifle, Avenger/Rad rifle(in inventory, not equiped), Pistol/Grenades there are many many more combinations, i just wrote but few of them.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 07:38:43 AM by mafiapl »
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Count Matthew

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2015, 05:23:03 AM »

Nice article, thanks :)

Do you use mods?
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Kurwier

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2015, 05:30:59 AM »

who cares about mods , for example i played a long time without easyomve and it was all fine , in the end in real pvp it does also come down to what you are used ... someone with a long reactiontime will still have a long reaction time even with easymove for example , while somebody else u wouldnt even notice the difference ... still im glad for certain stuff it makes some things easier but im not sure if better. for example without easy move you concentrate more on the hex you are going while in easy move mod u just raping the left mouse button ...
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mafiapl

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 05:49:15 AM »

Yes i use mods.
When i came back from my 2 month "break", i had to install the game again. By default AoP now has all mods included. And i was too lazy to turn them off so i let them be, thinking maybe they ll do me good. The attack-move has proven to be of great help. Before i was only using noreload so that i can switch between single and burst shots faster.
The attack-move really makes things faster, helps a lot when pinging enemy positions or to poke corners to check for enemies.
The freeshoot mod is also good, it performs great when using high firerate weapons like Gattling or Deagle.

Of course none of the tips above will make great difference on their own, but if you stack them up, then they will.

...
for example without easy move you concentrate more on the hex you are going while in easy move mod u just raping the left mouse button ...

Stupid troll like always, speaking out without any experience to show. It's the opposite you damn fool. With attack-move you use left mouse button much less than without the mod.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 05:51:37 AM by mafiapl »
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Kurwier

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 06:31:11 AM »

i meant right but nvm
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clochard

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 06:39:26 AM »

Nice article indeed, it should be put on the wiki:

You can also add smokes in the cover section and the way you can create artifitial covers with them, also something about the hexe shooting  that most new players aren't aware of.
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naossano

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 07:25:15 AM »

Nice initiative and many usefull tips.
Although i find very problematic that you encourage user to download cheatings tools that give an unfair edge on the battlefield, break the immersion, and remove the graphics work made by original develloppers and subsequent modders. Those mods should be hunted down or countered (with fog of war for instance), not promoted, especially on the wiki.
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Count Matthew

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2015, 07:38:42 AM »

Nice initiative and many usefull tips.
Although i find very problematic that you encourage user to download cheatings tools that give an unfair edge on the battlefield, break the immersion, and remove the graphics work made by original develloppers and subsequent modders. Those mods should be hunted down or countered (with fog of war for instance), not promoted, especially on the wiki.

I agree about mods 100%. I dont care for the tactical advantage when it ruins the look and feel of the game. The immersion is ruined.

Also, I am shocked to learn that you can download them when you get the client. Shifty stuff.
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clochard

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2015, 07:42:09 AM »

He was speaking about the settings where you can change roof transparency, free shots etc:
He don't encourage or even speak about cheatings.
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mafiapl

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 07:46:40 AM »

...
Although i find very problematic that you encourage user to download cheatings tools that give an unfair edge on the battlefield, break the immersion, and remove the graphics work made by original develloppers and subsequent modders. Those mods should be hunted down or countered (with fog of war for instance), not promoted, especially on the wiki.

Cheating is when you do something in game that developers would not allow willingly, to gain some kind of advantage over others. Those mods are part of the game, perhaps they should be called even "options", the same way that "always run" is part of the options. Cheating mode is no walls mode, it's not part of the game that you can download from official website.

I understand that in some way i promoted the use of mods, but i had to state all the things that came to my mind that can improve your play.

From my experience:
Free shot - holding left mouse button makes it like you are constantly clicking mouse, like 60 times a second. Reduces reaction time to enemy. Hold button when camping and you respond with shots almost instantly. Doesn't work with melee, you wont "chase down" target with this. If you got ally before you, and you make rapetrain, enemy comes right next to your ally, you may shot your own ally, because his attack animation gets in your way for split of second.
Noreload - Pretty good to speed up switching between fire mods. Didnt find any downsides.
Noroofs - Enables you to see movement inside the buildings that you aren't close to. Improves information gathering greatly. Only downside is that you suffer graphical cripple.
Attack-move - speeds up reaction time, easier multitasking, takes more time to open doors (open-move doors using hotkey "2" solves this partialy), sometimes it bugs and you have "load" icon this forces you to double hit ESC to reset the mouse icon. And this also reduces the usage of both mouse buttons, economical savings ? :)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 07:55:39 AM by mafiapl »
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Count Matthew

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 07:47:04 AM »

He was speaking about the settings where you can change roof transparency, free shots etc:
He don't encourage or even speak about cheatings.

So no wall mods?

Do you use any Clochard?
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Kurwier

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2015, 07:53:43 AM »

in my opinion nowall and no roof should be forbidden , no roof gives u clearly advantage of seeing where some doors are opening while u 100 miles away from it and nowall mod clearly gives u loot advantage , like ebing able to see loot thats hidden behind walls without even being near ...

but unfortunately its very easy to edit the graphic files or better to say that it is client sided . so i dont see any change anytime soon ... everybody must choose for themself if he wants to play fair or unfair ...
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clochard

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2015, 08:00:06 AM »

He was speaking about the settings where you can change roof transparency, free shots etc:
He don't encourage or even speak about cheatings.

So no wall mods?

Do you use any Clochard?

I only use "awesomeness" mod, but in real life.
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Stem Sunders

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2015, 08:38:29 AM »

Thanks! Insightful.

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Teela

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2015, 09:05:11 AM »

in my opinion nowall and no roof should be forbidden , no roof gives u clearly advantage of seeing where some doors are opening while u 100 miles away from it and nowall mod clearly gives u loot advantage , like ebing able to see loot thats hidden behind walls without even being near ...

but unfortunately its very easy to edit the graphic files or better to say that it is client sided . so i dont see any change anytime soon ... everybody must choose for themself if he wants to play fair or unfair ...

This has been discussed over and over again already. While in fact its simple. You can't forbid things if you can't enforce it, which goes for all client side graphics modifications. Indeed no roofs gives an advantage, so in their infinite wisdom devs decided to make it readily available to anyone, taking any unfair advantage away. I personally like no roofs. Gives you a hell of a lot more oversight at no expense in terms of immersion.

With regards to no walls I'm not sure. Following my own reasoning there should be a ~nowalls command as well. At the same time its incredibly ugly and an insult to the countless hours the community spent on making this game look as good as it does. It would be silly to toss all that down the bin and arrive at a situation where everyone feels obliged to strip the game of graphics to gain a tiny edge in pvp.

But in the end its something people should decide for themselves so yes to ~nowalls and ~nonades to get rid of those pesky smoke, mustard and fire animations and keep the playing field level.

Also add ~noGUI that lets the fast typers amongst us play inside a command window and gets rid of screenlag.


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Shangalar

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2015, 09:38:05 AM »

Thanks for this, I'm sure especially John will appreciate :) Hope it gets even more developed!
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RazorRamon

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2015, 09:38:36 AM »

All of the mods mentioned in first post here are official you dumbnuts.

Only thing in existance right now that requires modifying of files is no walls. And i used that but removed it, its good for pve hamster servers, but in pvp you also remove windows with it which is terrible.
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Count Matthew

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2015, 09:51:23 AM »

All of the mods mentioned in first post here are official you dumbnuts.

Only thing in existance right now that requires modifying of files is no walls. And i used that but removed it, its good for pve hamster servers, but in pvp you also remove windows with it which is terrible.

Sorry, sorry
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mafiapl

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2015, 11:12:51 AM »

...
This has been discussed over and over again already. While in fact its simple. You can't forbid things if you can't enforce it, which goes for all client side graphics modifications.
...

Hashing algorithms
There are of course more ways to complicate it using salt, memory, processes monitors, all up to your imagination.

Thanks for this, I'm sure especially John will appreciate :) Hope it gets even more developed!

No it wont. Those are "Tips" as the topic suggests, not a "guide".
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Teela

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Re: PvP tips
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2015, 12:01:42 PM »

AOP doesn't currently have hashing algorithms and memory and process monitors. All there is is lots of salt.

EDIT: but I don't think no walls is an epidemic. Makes stuff so ugly only the most hardcore players will use I suppose.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 12:06:19 PM by Teela »
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