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[SnowCrash]

Spears are a great addition to FOnline games. A unique type of weapon that really fit the Post Apo ambience with epic animations, and its fun to play (or at least for me).

I will classify them on two categories, Combat and Support.
Combat ones are those that can be used as a primary weapon (serrated, barbed, may be piston) Support are those that are situational (plasma, dynamite)

Atm playing a Combat thrower is viable but with very limited tools. Serrated seems the best option, and barbed as a less effective replacement. Support spears are not worth it, as grenades are much better.
I know throwing its as a support skill, so throwing weapons are mainly oriented to be support weapons, but devs state that they want to make every character class be effective in combat, and Combat Spears make possible to play a pure thrower.
So here a bunch of suggestion to improve Combat and Support spears

Suggestion 1: Default Spear traits
One by One: weapon drop effect only make one spear to be dropped (and not all your stack), but you need to draw a new one so you lost 10AP (15? whatever balanced amount)
Street samurai: spears can be toggled between one handed weapons with no delay. So can be used as backup ranged weapons for melee chars, or as support for other classes

Those traits added to all spears will increase the uniqueness of this weapon class.

Suggestion 2: The impaler Perk
The perk effect it's very situational and you need luck more than anything to take a benefit.
So instead make it a weapon trait for some spear(s): i suggest piston (that also knock back adjacent enemies) for unique linear damage knockback
For perk effect, ill go with:
Option 1) when a cripple its caused, add an additional cripple level  to that limb, better winded chance (imagine a spear piercing your arm or stomach)
Option 2) Add piercing strike perk to every spear
Option 3) Add bonus damage and bonus range

Suggestion 3: Spears Rework
-Serrated: Probably best spear atm. good damage and perks
-Barbed: May be lack some base damage. Good bleed potential
-Piston: Decent damage but not as good as serrated. Add impaler trait
-Snake: Worst spear atm
  Rework it to cause winded on every hit (can be resisted), low damage.
  Will be good as support weapon for melee players to catch enemies
-Festering: poisoned, add 10% hard damage trait (Hard damage will reduce max ammount of HP for a decent amount of time) So it will be a good weapon to slowly weaken your enemies
at the initial combat stages.
-Dynamite: bad atm
  Option 1: add AoE and some secondary effects (limb shredder?, confusion?, knockback?)
  Option 2: stick to target (dealing normal damage) and explode after a time causing explosion damage in AoE

-Energy and plasma spears
Those spears have the issue that dont stack so are tedious for using as Combat spears, and there its better to use grenades as support weapons
So one option can be that they dont need to be charged, but they use sec directly from your inventory. So as long you have secs they work as charged spears, and otherwise they work as uncharged spears.

Suggestion 4: New spears!
Lightning Spear: Uses SECs. Will have Chain trait: so it will deal AoE in a different way than grenades.
(May be not a new spear, but a reworked energy spear with Chain trait)

Diamond spear: Good penetration, some bleed. Spear designed to finish off bleeding targets
Eviscerate weapon Trait: any hit with this weapon will cause that 25%-40% bleed of the target will automatically converts into damage. Decreased DR trait. Perks: more criticals, finisher, slaughter shoot, better bleed, bonus damage. Situational against bleeding targets. (Extra suggestion: rename serrated as diamond to be the most effective penetrating spear, and name this one serrated spear)

Grappling Hook Spear (Tier 3 spear): will work like scorpion kunai, or dota butcher meat hook.
Weapon trait: “Get over here!” drags target unit in your direction (don't works against SPA)
Drag to your position will certainly be not fun to play against, so can be a few hexes. But here is the fun thing: you can also drag dead bodies! So you can use it to bring a dead fellow to a safer position to be revived. Or to claim an enemy body to your side, so it cannot be resurrected.
Perks: hemorrhage, 2 more criticals, BRoF, HtG

For implementation I have two options in mind
1) it won't be lost on throw, so it will be like a melee weapon with range. Will have high AP cost to use and pump action trait (you need to ungrapple/unjamm after each use)
2) it will be lost after each use, but will have lower AP cost and when you find it it will come in batches of 3-5. So you willl have limited amount of those, and need to carefully chose when use it.

Suggestion 5: Legendary Spears?
Spears cannot be made legendary (It have sense) but that means that spears will be less useful to use as main weapons as the game progress
So a suggestion for that: New weapon/item Power glove

The power glove at first won't do anything. But it will gain legendary status as you use spears. Perks of the power glove will be applied to every spear you use

Implementation may be the problem...
option 1) make it a weapon and spears will work like ammunition (spears should also have to be usable without the weapon, just like now)
option 2) power glove have to be in the utility slot and affect spears on both hands (fair trade off for get bonus to spear?)
option 3) make a hidden slot. when drag it to a hand slot it becomes translucent and you can equip spears on top of the glove. To unequip first unequip the spear and them the glove

Suggestion 6: Crafting spears...
Crafting spears can be tedious (pole->spear->serrated only for 1 serrated). Also most of them dont require rare components and the ones requirem them aren't worth the resource for only one piece.

So make them able to be crafted on batches
Combat spears will be crafted on batches of 20. Support on batches of 5
So as an example
Serrated spears will require 20 poles, 10 flints, 12 metal, 10 alloys and 1 ceramic for a batch of 20
Lighting spear will require 1 energy transformer, 5 poles, 10 metal, 10 alloys for a batch of 5

With this change i wouldn't mind if speas break 100% of the time

Suggestion 7 (and final): Loot
Make spears spawning on the core and enemies to be in batches (similar amount of crafting)
Not free spears like we got before, but make that if you find spears the amount is at least enough for a fight.

[cirn0]

I want to thank you for this quality post. Your plea is heard.
I will write a more formal reply when I have some time.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

Someone has been playing far cry primal? 

[SnowCrash]

Not actually… i forgot about that game.
I get disappointed of F4 for not having spears (and then i get bored by the story...), same with skyrim…
Maybe I should give far cry a try to to satiate my primitive need of use spears.

[BG Sexpert]

This is a good post with good ideas. +1

[Kurwier]

someone should donate this man some plasma spears , i dont know how u can say that plasma spears are support spears LOL. its the strongest spear ingame , once in range you can kill anybody with 2 plasma spears or 1 plasma spear and 1 handgrenade combo.

better fix electro spear before introducing more memespears , also making this plasmaspears stackable in inventory is a pain in the ass job since you would have to reduce damage or increase ap cost to balance it.

crafting spears could be easier yeah , but dont forget that you can buy regular spears from junk merchants for pretty other useless shit so you can save that crafting mats by buying just regular spears.

about legendary spears i agree , but its really hard to fix since you got stackable spears and if they would level like regular guns ( only the once thrown would gain score ) it would even take ages to get one legendary spear because you would have to pick them all up after the battle ( which doenst apply for guns unless they gonna introduce throwing guns feature ) , not to mention that theres a small chance of disapearing also once thrown from a player which makes it even more odd. i do even think the score u gain on thrown plasma spears atm isnt accurate , everytime i picked them up they were 0% or 1% but in reality if u hit someone with 200+dmg it shud be something around 5% so its a very complicated task i like you glove suggestion tho , would be a neat solution for the utility slot in combination with spears.

agree with the stacks which you could farm from npcs.

i dunoo , impaler perk says that it adds range alread but i havent tested it , good suggestion.

dont forget there are people here who like to destroy balanced "stuff" aswell or in other words check the thread.

qq , qq never changes.

i think spearmen atm is pretty cool to play in combination with a melee , thrower its very easy to make an build for ... and for building sieges , smoke rushes its pretty cool and effective , still the crafting needs an overwork and useless spears like electro , piston and dynamite spears need a rework from my point of view , this spears are the least used becasue they are shit. not to mentioning festering spear which u can only farm from lawyer patrols and with their function which didnt came to my mind yet.

Spoiler for The "stuff":

The "stuff" link is pretty funny tho , when you read it ... it becomes clear that paragon never used spears himself. ofc you could place 2 plasma spear throwers in a toilett but they wont hold off a whole swarm becasue once their 2 (or 3) plasma spears thrown their handslots are empty > which isnt a great idea if you get rushed by a swarm < and with those 4 (or 6) spears you maximum killing 2 people in far greater time than 2seconds! a ripper is much more effecient at doors to hold back incomming forces , same goes for handgrenades ... reequiping plasmaspears is no fun also and it seems like some people forget about the action point costs , equipping 2 new plasmaspears ( if you have any more in invetory becasue picking up used ones is mostly impossible to the fact that you thrown somewhere , where the enmy stands at with full force ) will soak up 100ap , so this whole spearmen thread is shit since ever and i said that since ever ... people doesnt check things and just assume crazy stuff , and they have in mind that other people who doenst have a clue will believe this shit.

[SnowCrash]

someone should donate this man some plasma spears , i dont know how u can say that plasma spears are support spears LOL.

I classify them as support as they don't stack. So it will be a pain in the ass to use them as primary weapon,  and better to use to finish a target.  And last time i tested damage didnt differ much from serraed. May be ill need to check them again

i dunoo , impaler perk says that it adds range alread but i havent tested it , good suggestion.

Atm Impaler dont add range. i think that devs want to mean that it can hit additional targets 5 hexes beyond the main target. But who knows...

And i remember that thread, but back then, spears where found anywhere in the core and cost less AP.

[Komrade]

Impaler top fun thing to use
http://i.imgur.com/p6m3eKk.png

I loved using spears but without free spears in core or at least ability to mass craft em I ain't gonna even bother. Crafting one by one is taking forever. 

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

I loved using spears but without free spears in core or at least ability to mass craft em I ain't gonna even bother. Crafting one by one is taking forever. 

Just like grenades. Nobody is going to spend all those resources on one grenade. Adding some sort of tribal man spear seller would be good IMO.

Also for spears using SEC, at first I thought they were going to shoot some sort of projectile, not throw the actual spear itself. Reworking plasma and energy to throw that projectile would be a good change IMO.

[BG Sexpert]

Maybe you can have plasma spear charging, similar to a Stealth Boy. Uncharged Plasma Spears don't stack. You engineer them with some SEC and they charge and stack. Have uncharged spears deal the damage of a normal spear. Once a spear is thrown it depletes its entire charge.

[SnowCrash]

Maybe you can have plasma spear charging, similar to a Stealth Boy. Uncharged Plasma Spears don't stack. You engineer them with some SEC and they charge and stack. Have uncharged spears deal the damage of a normal spear. Once a spear is thrown it depletes its entire charge.

That can be a good solution. Two different items for charged and uncharged spears. Once a charged spear hit the ground it will become a non charged spear. Sounds simple.

Also for spears using SEC, at first I thought they were going to shoot some sort of projectile, not throw the actual spear itself. Reworking plasma and energy to throw that projectile would be a good change IMO.

Yeah i have thinked the same, but it will be weird... It will become more like a wizard rod than a spear.
Other Idea that i had, was to have a powered gauntlet that generate pure energy spears, but that again will fit more a fantasy game with magic generated weapons (And also will behave like a normal energy gun, making spears not feeling like a unique type of weapon)

[GaS]

I like these idea, and i will write to Imakandi if spears are buffed )

[clochard]

Really nice post.
Maybe instead of a power glove (it makes me think too much about nintento) you could equip a "javelin bag":
-differents javelin bags with differents perks maybe.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

Javelin bag sounds cool but how will it work? Is it the weapon and players loads spears into them as if it were ammo?

[clochard]

Snowcrash wrote this (please be attentive Stalker):

Suggestion 5: Legendary Spears?
Spears cannot be made legendary (It have sense) but that means that spears will be less useful to use as main weapons as the game progress
So a suggestion for that: New weapon/item Power glove

The power glove at first won't do anything. But it will gain legendary status as you use spears. Perks of the power glove will be applied to every spear you use

Implementation may be the problem...
option 1) make it a weapon and spears will work like ammunition (spears should also have to be usable without the weapon, just like now)
option 2) power glove have to be in the utility slot and affect spears on both hands (fair trade off for get bonus to spear?)
option 3) make a hidden slot. when drag it to a hand slot it becomes translucent and you can equip spears on top of the glove. To unequip first unequip the spear and them the glove

The 3 implementation options are both pertinents, i just don't think power glove is Comsetically or logically the best option for such item.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

[SnowCrash]

Javeling bag can be an option. Just think that will be weird to have a legendary bag that makes you spears more powerfull for some reason.

i call it power glove becuse at firs a was to suggest that power fist can be used for that. but i think that a new item will be better.
To be honest, i dont care if its a glove, gauntlet a bag or whatever.
But would be nice to have the option of legendary bonus for spears.

[GaS]

I tested spears at last week and have to say that its powerful weapon if you use the Impaler perk.
I think that:
- The Impaler perk is great now. It dont needed to rework/buff.
- Piston spear needed more perks or traits. I think that it might be like Mega Power Fist perks and traits.
- Snake spear is unusual item now. Maybe rework it to cripling weapon?
- Barbed spear needed Deep Wounds trait and Hit the Gaps. I think that Knokout Strike can be removed.
- We needed T3 throwing weapon and able to make it legendary.

[cirn0]

I guess what would make the most sense is to add an atlatl, I've already planned to add a spear gun. 

As far as the design of spear in relation of throwing, we haven't really given it much thought. The unique characteristic of throwing comes form the required skill shot and somewhat movement predictions otherwise you'll have a hard time hitting a target moving at a flank angle relative to you. In that regard, I think its best that spear hits to be high impact with potential and risk depending on range.

Just want to make a point that non-grenade throwing doesn't have to be limited to spears. Its just we so happen to have animations for spears to begin with. We can just as easily add other throwing weapons now but I like to make it a point not to not have weapons that do similar things.

At this point, barbed and serrated are like your JHP and AP spears and these were never redesigned after much has changed about the combat systems. An update on the items to fit the high impact ideal would be in place. Also I think double cripple wouldn't be a bad idea if we don't want to boost the burst damage of these weapons while maintaining a high impact hit.

Piston spear... mainly up to your imagination how to use it. It's definitely not for dealing damage. Perhaps If damage was remove from it, it will open up more usability.

I can modify Festering spear to leave a trail of mustard or leave a cloud at the destination. With the trail of mustard it can be use to kite players chasing you or discourage chase. If its at it destination, it would be useful against campers as an alternative to mustard grenades.

Explosive spear having a delayed explosion after you impale a person is OK with me! So it would have a possibility to do both a spear hit damage plus the explosion damage.

A grappling spear sounds  good but more than likely we'll end up with a lasso, chain, bolas and such instead, it doesn't always have to be spear! I do like the idea of this kind of utility throwing item though!

I think its best to remove the electric spear and re-imagine it into something else. Perhaps an area denial weapon that actives when it lands in the destination it periodically shocks nearby targets that approach it until its out of cells. Or someone runs over to disarm and remove it.

The plasma spear is pretty much a thrown particle accelerator atm, total ass to use and hits like a truck. I don't hate or like it.

Using spear in Melee should just be a backup, we call them spears but really we've all treated them like javelins. I'd have to make sure pure Melee weapons aren't left out to dry again like with the Machete fiasco. 

Crafting improvements is a must and its not only a problem for spears, a problem for all of crafting.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

I think its best to remove the electric spear and re-imagine it into something else. Perhaps an area denial weapon that actives when it lands in the destination it periodically shocks nearby targets that approach it until its out of cells. Or someone runs over to disarm and remove it.

Should be melee weapon that causes EMP effect with knockback

Spear gun sounds awesome and the changes sound great